[1.1.6.2-1.1.9.0] Return of the Rogue - 6s Mad Queen, 6m Crucible, SR 75+ tanky no greens melee Saboteur

Aaaaand new SR 75-76 video finally uploaded, added to the op.

Decided to kill Mogdrogen with this Rogue. A bit slow, but dead God is a dead God.

Probably my favorite build in the game, it’s tons of fun b/c of DW, and it’s tanky so I don’t have to pucker up every 5 seconds worrying about dying.

Nice to see that you’ve updated it, I’m making the changes (except I’m using yugol).

thanks! I have tested Yugol and it’s still weaker than DG/Ultos/Amatok map.

Oh yeah, I know that it’s weaker, but I like the new 12% reduced dmg modifier on it since I’m hc.

Well, it should help this build I guess. I tested it on my Hybrid Trickster and somehow found survivability to be worth (actually died two times in Crucible). But maybe it didn’t scale well there because it already had damage reduction proc from alkamos rings and maybe it can scale better on this Sabouter, it’s hard to tell without making multiple runs with both devotion maps.

Yeah, I don’t think it’s much help if you already have alkamos’ rings. On the saboteur though we don’t have anything for overall % dmg reduction yet. Yugol seems to help me a lot.

What’s your devo map with Yugol?

@Plasmodermic kindly agreed to give it his best and managed this lightning fast (for a Sabouter) 5:40 run:

Added to the op.

@bryanw1995

I did test a spec with Yugol: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/1NXjQjBV (crafts are still for %physique and DA in Crucible is 3000+ with Ulzuin’s buff).

And damage was similiar. However, I was unpleasantly surprised that survivability is actually WORSE. Yeah, it doesn’t make sense at first but apparently Skeletons messing with mob’s A.I. and damage reduction from Undead gives build more than overal DR on Yugol’s proc. I have died 3 times out of like 7 runs, something that never happened to me when I was playing DG + Revenant spec.

EDIT: And my personal best with the build:

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1.1.6.2 Update

With the nerfs to Dying God, Revenant and Barbaros pants it was time to revisit this melee warrior of mine. Reinvented the spec a bit, new Deathwhisper pants are actually good now. Added quite a few videos of updated build’s performance.

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Thanks for sharing, man. I personally LOVE Saboteur and am really glad to see it being done. Was my very first build, a Saboteur, before I knew anything about the game. Never could stay away from hoping and wishing for more Saboteur support.

In AoM expansion I got super pumped the first time I found Vilzagor’s Heart. Now we have Fire blade spirits, too! It’s an exciting time for Saboteur, and always more exciting to see other people playing them!

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Some sick videos from @banana_peel and @Dmt (thanks a lot, guys!)

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Thank you really much, Saboteur is my next char after Trickster for sure :smile:

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I changed 3 things https://www.grimtools.com/calc/qNYowlWV
A few curiosities:

  1. I /think/ my devo setup will slightly outperform yours but I’m unsure. 6% undead damage and 5% crit damage vs some cold damage. I think taking the other 3 points of blizzard is usually a waste. I picked up wretch and the 3rd point in torch, realistically I think this could be utilized even better but I’m not quite sure how I’d want to go about that.
  2. I think armor is fairly overrated, I’d opt for an ancient armor plate over a scaled hide, and that’s what I typically did before I quit
  3. I think given how murmor spreads it’s better to proc it with thermites and use firestrike for ultos but I havn’t tested this and im just using old experience on unrelated builds.
  4. It’s been so long since I’ve been in these forums I can’t remember who’s green allergic and who isn’t. I think these kuba pants are better. Picking up %OA and a bunch of resists lets you shift res around and pick up DA augments. Overall around 100 more DA / OA.

Question: How good are those rings really? The new Roguelike rings have juicy procs, and Alk rings are always nice. Have you tested either of those?

Undead damage is not that valuable here. Definitely not worth losing 100% to Cold and 150% to Frostburn from Amatok nodes.

It is a bit overrated but because it’s a melee Sabouter (even in SR set) it utilizes every bit of defense to keep it together. Golems fit this build like a glove.

Definitely not. You need to proc your RR ASAP not only to start dishing out max damage immediately but also to start properly leeching immediately and not proc fail-safes like Ghoul or Prismatic too early.

Greens have became more common in builds because they became much easier to farm and I use them here and there. Although single-rares to keep it realistic. Deathwhisper are bis here because they roll up to 6% physical resist which is crucial to this melee build’s survival.

Alkamos rings are worse, tested them. Anubar rings might have similiar damage but blue rings give the build a lot of survivability (more flat damage and weapon damage due to skills bonuses so better adtch, attack speed that Anubar rings lack, crafting bonus which is important here). So they are 100% bis.

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Greens have became more common in builds because they became much easier to farm and I use them here and there. Although single-rares to keep it realistic. Deathwhisper are bis here because they roll up to 6% physical resist which is crucial to this melee build’s survival.

Nice to hear. I’m interesting in the cost/benefit of the OA/DA gain vs the phys res. More damage means things die faster, dead things means you don’t take damage. Higher DA means you’re being hit less but when you are hit you take more damage. :man_shrugging: Might be worth testing, up to you.

rings

I’m wondering if there’s an unrealistic green setup where you drop golemborns for slow res + other stuff green boots and grab better rings. You could potentially pick up more AS and at least pick up more damage. I’m way too lazy to bother with that though. I agree about the slow res being important, I just really dislike the way the rings are itemized.

Why are you saying this if you haven’t tested this yourself? The “more damage means things die faster” doesn’t mean much in the SR when nemeses take a while to kill and you have to survive. What you are saying might mean something in crucible, but in the SR you are going to be on the edge of death, and under the ghoul proc multiple times. It is just not possible to kill things faster if you are losing survivability when the nemeses have as much hp as they do.

If you look at DMT’s video, at 12:30, you are going to be instantly vaporized without the defenses and adcth of this build. Also instant death at 12:50. And then the cycle would begin and you would never be able to finish this room. And there are worse circumstances than shown in this video.

I said I hadn’t tested certain interactions with this build in particular. In general I know for a fact 100 more oa and da make a big difference in all places of the game. Unless I’m mistaken I thought this was a general build for all parts of the game, not just SR focused. If I missed that, I was mistaken but I build around the assumption this would be used for Cruc, SR, and boss killing. Naturally Celestials need to be modified for.

Since I wasn’t clear: I was asking his opinion on the difference since it’s his build. I’d prefer the OA/DA.

Well of course you wait for his opinion, but 100 OA/DA does not always mean better if you are trading it for something else. Also, there are thresholds where you get diminishing returns, and this build is already there with 3200/2800. 100 more OA/DA means a lot more when you are below 2800/2800.

I also want to completely agree with the rings being 100% bis as he said. They almost always are in an attack build with large weapon damage that does fire, cold, or both, and needs more adcth to survive.