[1.1.6.2] Pretender to the Throne - maximum damage DW pierce Cadence Blademaster (5:20 min avg. Crucible, SR75-76)

Well that’s one of the easiest things to test, isn’t it? Just take a tank, don’t do any damage and observe the beacon’s damage.

They manage to finish off the weaker mobs. But the damage is not high at all. For instance, tier1 beacon dmg is 1.5k-4.5k to 4 targets. It is not scaled by any player bonuses and can only take advantage of elemental RR applied to the target.

Compare this to a regular leg. item proc, chain lightning: 126-405 against 5 targets. After some 30x usual dmg multiplier for an average elemental build it translates into 3.8k-12.2k dmg against 5 targets.

You are considering just one hit :D. Imo best proof would be my binder. With vanguard i got 4.20, with beacons i got a whooping 4.07. I am actually curious how would @sir_spanksalot spite bm and @ya1 cyclone elementalist perform on 3+1 :smiley:.

Since when have you became a 3+1 fan? Weren’t you always running your AAR on 4+3 setup?

And we’ve been honest. It’s much more about aggroing stragglers and clearing trash than it is about flat RR. Flat RR is vastly overrated here. In fact, if Crate just lowers flat RR values on Storm Beacons builders would still use them for most of the builds.

Only the green non clairvoyant setup has 4+3 rest is 3+1 :D. Do i need to remind you how you argued with me about the binder build being enabled by Ulzuin’s pact?

Yeah, I was wrong it seems. Because when I tried it I couldn’t enable it even with Ulzuin’s pact - died every time instead.

But if we are being serious, 4+3 has been the meta since 1.1.4.0 patch or even a bit earlier. But I am guessing Crate isn’t happy with that so let’s see how hard the nerfhammer swings. Running 3+1 is definitely not as fun.

I can agree with the “not so fun” part of it, but i definitely dont agree with the idea of 4+3 being a meta. Reasons are pretty clear, one of them you said it yourself, a build being enabled by the energy regen from Ulzuin’s pact. Others are beacons trash clearing so you can focus only on the big stuff, and to be honest about the aggro part, spawn bugs rarely happen if you do stuff and not chill. I barely get any afk mobs in spawns on 3+1. Also aggroing is part of the game. If we 100% relly on beacons to aggro everything just to get a more fancy time we might as well request that all waves spawn exclusively in the middle one on top of eachother.

Not only that, a lot of builds rely on DA bonus from Ulzuin’s too. I don’t like it as well, that’s why I test my builds both in Crucible and SR environment. I hate making builds that require mana potions (although my latest Grasping Vines Trickster does need one in SR occassionaly). But there is no build police so people just choose the easier path and it’s natural for them to do that.

But as someone who tests a lot of different builds in 4+3 and 3+1 on a very average PC (I have GeForce 750 ti I think and CPU from the same era) I can definitely tell that aggro problems is the main attraction of Storm Beacons. Like I wouldn’t mind if RR was removed from them altogether and instead their range and their frequency was increased.

If that would be a case i would request keeping the frequency/range, removing RR and reducing the damage of level 1 beacons to 1-1 :smiley: if its just the aggro.

I mean having some damage to clear white mobs is the part of those beacons identity and what makes them fun. Like you are combining ARPG, survival and tower defense genre all in one.

I think it comes down to how Crate sees and wants their Crucible gamemod be experienced. Like you can balance all the banners by nerfing Storm Beacons to the level of Inferno Beacons or Ice beacons (anyone ever used those, lol) or you can tone down Storm Beacons a bit and make other beacons a bit more appealing (actually a lot more, they are currently almost useless).

Pretty similar proportions. Times go down by 10-15s.

In case of elementalist who got Canister and binder who can shot into spawn zones with AAR, I think the aggro factor is not that big. It’s more about instant rr to everyone. Skeletons are good but sometimes they attack one enemy and sometimes they go where they’re completely not needed.

It’s the blademasters and such who got nothing to bombard spawn zones from distance rely on the aggro factor much more.

Weird. I thought spreading debuffs can spread off corpses for a while. Pretty sure I saw Aether Corruption doing that. The icon is easy to spot. Rumor you can’t see for shit. Where are those debuff icons on GI?

So if you kill sth with a skill that’s supposed to proc sth, it’s not proccing? That’s kind of big for Morgo builds. Everyone’s been binding Rumor to SS.

I suppose it’s not an issue for a dedicated SS build where SS cooldown is minimal.
The checkbox for monster debuffs is in Monster stuff category, i believe.

It’s not that hard, I could just opt out of testing mode on Steam :slight_smile: I’ve known of Beacons since before the forum started using them and so has Valinov. I just didn’t use them since I saw them as completely broken and still would not use them.

In fact I considered them so broken that I thought the forum would reject it as a meme, but instead it embraced it

And aggroing is NOT their only merit, you guys are in serious and very odd denial about this. I don’t know what more to say about it.

What I can say is repeat the first thing i’ve said. Both are good builds in their own right and that’s pretty much it.

:ok_hand:

Cooldown is low but one-shoot potential is high. So if you keep one-shooting stuff on which Rumor was supposed to proc… I need to check out those icons! :scream:

Uh-huh… too broken to use… but you did change your whole ancient Belgo Slaughter thread to the theme of Notched Bone way back when, didn’t you? :joy: (I’m kidding)

Honestly, I like beacons but I kinda think 3+1 was the real deal. The increase in dps was palpable, you could feel the rush. And I don’t like making builds specifically for beacons with no flat rr - gives the SR people arguments that Crucible builds are only good for Crucible… :wink:

Nobody said aggro is the only merit. I said that for me, for how i play, aggro is the most important. I’m 100% sure about this. I play this game a lot, i know it very well and i’m well aware of what part of the build/tribute spending does what for the clear times.

I’m still not sure about your message here. We have beacons now. They are not a cheat. They cost tributes, we buy them, we make our runs. So should you, if you think they are THAT good. It is a part of the building process: to make the best out of your build with the initial conditions you have (in this case pierce DW Cadence with legit items). What happens after the nerf - we’ll see. It will be a new game. What’s the point of living in the future you don’t know about yet?

It’s not about cheating. To me it’s about being honest with yourself when you compare a build against a certain environment (in this case crucible) and how it measures up to it using the tools at your disposition.

Beacons create e massive disproportion in what the true value of a build is. That’s because along the years they got buffed, no one used them, no balance for them in any patch AND unlike the other unused towers they happen to have the most powerful attribute in GD since TQ…Rr…highly dependable Rr.

So no it’s not cheating, but it’s akin to chugging Consumables, which artificially enhance a build

Far too little for what you get out of them with 3x

Yup. Because you play mostly melee (or at least post mostly melee builds). On melee, aggro from beacons is golden because if they get stuck they get stuck and there’s nothing you could’ve done. On some casters you can counteract many aggro bugs with ranged AoE casts.

Idk, I don’t use Anguish belt because I know it’s not gonna exist next patch probably.

I don’t think Crate is gonna change the cost. I’d just lower rr and dmg and buff back Vanguard. Another thing not mentioned here - beacons are great because Vanguard sucks. Or at least isn’t what it used to be.

No, but they can encourage you to upgrade them and discourage T1 only

For that we have a patch version at the beginning of the headline, haven’t we? In 1.1.5.2 beacons show better times in Crucible. Not using them in this version when doing speedruns is… foolish?

If you want to talk about broken things, Spite is an absolutely broken weapon, beyond any measure. Is it dishonest, in your terms, to use it and compare to other builds right now?

I don’t even know what to say to this, comparing replenishable tributes to actual items needed to be farmed elsewhere.

FWIW in my fastest runs i use one t2 beacon instead of Ulzuin’s buff. It costs 1 tribute more but it pays off.

Correct

it’s your view on things, I have mine. If you simply want faster times regardless of context on any given build, by all means. Nothing wrong with that, and i mean that, not being sarcastic.

As for spite. That is a single weapon for 1 or 2 builds. Beacons are universal steroids for all builds

We can just have different views on the topic, i don’t see anything wrong with that at all

Neither do i, but i don’t go around accusing people of dishonesty. I only make builds, that’s all.