[1.1.8.1] dagallon helm chaos conversion seems not working

[Mahjers]

So description for Dagallon helm includes:

• 50% of chaos damage converted to lightning damage to fire strike
• 50% of chaos damage converted to fire damage to fire strike

So my 2H range purifier has points in Brimstone which has fire strike as base skill. So my expectation when wearing the helm is all the chaos damage from Brimstone will be converted (50% + 50% = 100%).
But when testing with Grim Internals I find this is NOT the case. I have checked with the author of that tool in their thread, they have reproduced same behaviour (see [Tool] Grim Internals)

Here is a link to a video I made showing the issue using Grim Internals damage breakdown DPS meter:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vfEOE6y2nXdw5nqln_EPl7OJ0sXci2VG/view?usp=sharing

Here is a description of the 4 quarters of the video

• first quarter of video, I show the helm stats has 100% total chaos convert (50% + 50%) and show my skill screen brimstone which is part of fire strike
• second quarter: I shoot a mob with just regular attack (ie no skill), Notice no chaos damage is registered. Hence no flat chaos damage on my gear
• third quarter switch to fire strike and shoot a different mob. Now notice chaos damage is registered. But this chaos damage is from brimstone where fire strike is base skill, so my expectation is there will be NO chaos damage since its supposed to be 100% converted
• fourth quarter: single target attack with fire strike. In this part there is no chaos damage registered, but I believe because none of the brimstone fragments are hitting any other enemy

PS When I crafted this helm via blueprint, I used one ingredient less than the recipe called for, I mention this in case its relevant and caused a bug in the helm, see an earlier bug report at Dagallon's Faceguard crafting issue
EDIT: can’t be relevant since GlockenGerda also reproduced the issue in their thread

[XandeRoot]

Well, it works, but only for single target portion. Fragments still deal chaos damage unfortunatelly.

Testing done by @Stupid_Dragon: Interaction between Blazeheart conversion and Brimstone

[tqFan]

@Stupid_Dragon
Does it mean the following fragment, no pun intended, from Secondary Skill Modifiers should be converted, no pun intended?

Secondary Skill Modifiers

The mechanical difference between them is native fragments receive full flat bonuses of other skill modifiers, while added fragments do not. This includes item skill modifiers. Fragments added via modifiers should still properly receive conversions found on item skill modifiers.

[Mahjers]

well I still think its a bug. The helm advertises conversion for fire strike but not doing so. That makes the helm and set rather underwhelming.
That thread if I understand correctly is saying it works for melee but not ranged? Then that’s even more support for the idea this is a bug, since Dagallon set comes with 2 pistols hence meant for ranged characters.
Hopefully we can convince the devs to at least take a second look, maybe its an easy fix, or if not easy to fix, then change the helm .

[tqFan]

The helm advertises conversion for fire strike but not doing so.

You are aware that many skills are like that? Torrent, Maelstrom, Soul Harvest…
More here Secondary Skill Modifiers
The thing is SD wrote with such projectiles it should work.

[Evil_Baka]

That thread if I understand correctly is saying it works for melee but not ranged?

No, it does work for ranged. Your video even confirms this towards the end when you just have Sanguirex on it’s own - suddenly you deal no Chaos damage with Fire Strike.

That thread is saying the fragments that Brimstone produces when you shoot something do not receive the conversion from Dagallon’s helmet but the shot you fire into a target before those fragments appear does.

Hopefully we can convince the devs to at least take a second look, maybe its an easy fix, or if not easy to fix, then change the helm .

Only way I can think to make the fragments convert in any event would be giving Dagallon’s set global conversion just like Rotgheist has global Lightning->Vitality conversion for Torrent. As for whether the developers will do that as Dagallon has been balanced without it, that’s another question.

[tqFan]

That thread is saying the fragments that Brimstone produces when you shoot something do not receive the conversion from Dagallon’s helmet but the shot you fire into a target before those fragments appear does .

That’s the same as what @XandeRoot’s written, right? Just not so convoluted, I needed to read yours ~5 times to understand

Well, it works, but only for single target portion. Fragments still deal chaos damage unfortunatelly.

[Stupid_Dragon]

@Stupid_Dragon
Does it mean the following fragment, no pun intended, from Secondary Skill Modifiers should be converted, no pun intended?

Secondary Skill Modifiers

The mechanical difference between them is native fragments receive full flat bonuses of other skill modifiers, while added fragments do not. This includes item skill modifiers. Fragments added via modifiers should still properly receive conversions found on item skill modifiers.

Outdated by now, thanks for pointing it out.

[Zantai]

While it is not a bug exactly, I agree that it’s not ideal, so we’ll move the conversion to a Flame Touched modifier instead.

[Evil_Baka]

Yes. You can even visually see it in Dragon’s post in the thread that XandeRoot quoted:

The 66318 is the initial shot that converts. The 1056 is a fragment which does not convert.

[Mahjers]

No, it does work for ranged. Your video even confirms this towards the end when you just have Sanguirex on it’s own - suddenly you deal no Chaos damage with Fire Strike.

That thread is saying the fragments that Brimstone produces when you shoot something do not receive the conversion from Dagallon’s helmet but the shot you fire into a target before those fragments appear does.

ah, I did not realize there is an initial shot, I thought Brimstone produces fragments only. So the skeptic in me did another video test, this time NOT wearing Dagallon’s helm, and repeat the single target attack. And indeed I see chaos damage even with single target attack
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MLfr0oSUuAHSytJU4uNLLdhnpTK5HZan/view?usp=sharing

so okay that is somewhat better. I suppose now I know about this initial shot I can live with it

While it is not a bug exactly, I agree that it’s not ideal, so we’ll move the conversion to a Flame Touched modifier instead

Ok but only if it don’t hold up 1.1.9.0 release, I don’t want angry mob blaming me for delays

You mean Temper? its level 20 skill rather than level 50, so doesn’t do much physical damage to be converted compared to the chaos on brimstone, unless you plan to also add additional damage to Temper on the helm

[tqFan]

Ok but only if it don’t hold up 1.1.9.0 release, I don’t want angry mob blaming me for delays

Nobody will know anyway

You mean Temper? its level 20 skill rather than level 50, so doesn’t do much physical damage to be converted compared to the chaos on brimstone, unless you plan to also add additional damage to Temper on the helm

I think means global Chaos conversion modifiers to Flame Touched such as the ones on Galeslice’s Mark

[Mahjers]

I think means global Chaos conversion modifiers to Flame Touched such as the ones on Galeslice’s Mark

ok that item description confuses me greatly since neither Flame touched not its modifier Temper includes chaos damage. You saying its actually global while that skill is active, ie, flat chaos on any other gear will be converted too? Because there a pair of gloves I saw forget the name but has lots of additional flat chaos when using a 2hander ranged which I thought would not get converted with Dagallon helm

EDIT: Mythical Harbinger’s Grasp https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9120

[tqFan]

Question about modifiers and conversion

Hi, Say I use eye of reckoning, converting 100% physical to fire. Ive read that other skills that gives +%physical damage wont increase the damage. But what about flat physical modifiers like Temper that adds 40-80 physical damage for example… Will that be added before conversion, after, or not at all?

[gutten_morgen]

how about Dreadscorcher gun or Vitality Fire Strike conduit? they both have chaos conversion (to aether with DS and to vitality with conduit), then both are useless with range Fire Strike now? please fix them too if possible (i dont want to start a new thread since they got the same problem like Dagallon’s helm)

[Retal_Abuser]

Vitality Fire Strike conduit?

Afaik Vitality Defiler uses necro belt with global conversion so it doesn’t matter that much, but I know it’s misleading.

[gutten_morgen]

It doesnt make any sense that the mod is basically useless for Brimstone (the only chaos dam from FS). How about i dont like Defiler but Shieldbreaker or Pyromancer? so i HAVE TO use necro belt to get the conversion (and just half of the conversion which-suppose-to-be-100% with the mod) then? your suggestion is nice, but its like “when the skill’s mod is useless, just use other items with global conversion to cover things up” , and thats just doesnt sound right.

[XandeRoot]

Afaik Vitality Defiler uses necro belt with global conversion

True. But being forced to use specific item isn’t that great either. Fire FS has quite a few options of global chaos -> fire conversion, vitality has basically two (necro belt and Valguur’s gloves).

I have this non-meta setup. I’m eager to test it but I’m missing a couple of items (good greens). Should be rather tanky, but damage and AoE-wise I’m not so sure.

The only solution I see is to change fire -> vit conversion on Gargabol to chaos -> vit, but that’ll nerf Oppressors.

The other option is to change vit FS conduit to Flame Touched conduit with flat vitality damage and global chaos -> vit. And I don’t know how it will play out balance-wise.

[Evil_Baka]

Pretty much every major/supported form of ranged Fire Strike I can think of has this problem. Including the ones you mentioned and Pierce. Only way to convert Brimstone’s fragments is global conversion which some have easy access to though don’t convert Brimstone fully.

[DenisMashutikov]

Reading that above, I’m afraid same issue apply to PRM. Proliferation additional projectiles doesn’t deal full PRM damage, moreover seems it not converted by item modifiers.