Because then what would be the point of Benn’Jahr, Valdaran and Moosilauke? They might as well not exist if you are not going to farm them. Nemesis should be tricky to find. Fabius, Iron Maiden and Zantarin are ridiculously easy to find.
I agree they should remove some of the spots of the first three i mentioned. To make them somewhat easier to find. But do not make them as easy to find as the three human nemesis. Or they could give the three human nemesis more spawns points. But then people would bitch that they are hard to find, like the other three nemesis.
No idea why not add a rare mob spawn that has a set piece that random spawns and is difficult as hell to do.
at least you know its there as the current rng games implement isnt that fun.
Look up Wikipedia and you’ll see that a Nemesis surely isn’t something that should be “tricky to find”. That’s just Crate’s strange idea of them. IMO farming Fabius or the Maiden (even with decent drop tables) would be already time-consuming enough - at least if you prefer character-building and playing over endless farming.
So what? There are areas in this game you’ll visit at most once. There are myriads of items in this game you’ll never equip. There are many smaller bosses you’ll never farm. Perhaps there are masteries you’ll never try. So what’s the problem with nemesis you’ll never choose to fight?
If you want to make sure that the player is encountering them occasionally, then simply add some random encounters (that can be anywhere, not at predetermined places). Problem solved.
Let’s be honest, the whole idea of nemesis bosses just waiting all the time to be found by their worst enemy (what your character is assumed to be) is somewhat ridiculous. At least occasionally they should actively go hunting you. This is exactly the difference everyone would expect from a nemesis (in contrast to some regular enemy), isn’t it? Players could always just open their personal rift gate to escape, so this shouldn’t pose a problem to anyone.
look at these two sentences. Look at them, read them over a few times each. Maybe even draw some diagrams representing them. Done that? Okay good.
Now explain how one person could not only say both of these things, but say them one right after another. No enemy you want people to actually fight should be difficult to find! If you want people to be able to Do A Thing, they need to be able to find the thing!
Honestly, I think all the nemeses should be bound to one zone. Let them wander that zone if you really need to, but put them in the same zone every time. And get rid of the stupid nemesis stash, too; I already killed the bastard, I shouldn’t have to hunt his fucking loot afterwards.
Yes, i read them. And yes, i stand by them. Nemesis should be able to farmable while being somewhat difficult to find. I’m not saying to make them hard to find, but to make finding them feel rewarding. Instead of just one minute in i already found one.
If they are so easy to find, then stuff like Fabius happens when everybody just farms him because he’s so ridiculously easy to find. Making one Nemesis far easier to find than the others renders the others obsolete. The others should be just as farmable as well but because one is so easy to find it renders the others obsolete.
Crate actually handled this poorly in my opnion. They should have made all Nemesis just as easy to find as each other but not as easy as Fabius. Instead they decided to nerf Fabius and the other two human Nemesis loot drops instead of making them just a little bit harder to find. Now noone wants to farm them because their loot sucks.
In my honest opnion, Moosilauke has the best hard to find/loot drops ratio and he’s pretty much the only one i farm. He’s not that hard to find, but not as easy as Fabius and he has a decent drop rate. The only thing irritating about him is that he can spawn in Steps of Torment.
Games are giving things “value” by making the player having to pay for them.
Spending resources, solving riddles or winning challenging fights are some possible ways to let the player pay and these are perfectly fine.
But letting the player pay with nothing but his time - filling it with repetitive activity void of any challenge - is just cheap. Unfortunately it’s still very common in games nowadays.
Except a very core aspect of the ARPG nature is farming for loot. If it isn’t something you consider a valuable aspect of the gameplay, then you are playing the wrong genre entirely.
Also, for some players, we want the massive time sinks, because…
A. We are not rich, we only have a few games, and something which drags out the game’s life is helpful.
B. We have a massive quantity of time, to the point of it being impossible to buy new games to keep up with the amount of time we have. We either invest our time in a PtP/PtW MMO (Only they are going out of style nowadays, due to over-saturation of the market for like 20 years), or find standard games where amassing a few hundred, or even thousand, hours is reasonable.
Do you know what words mean? “I’m not saying they should be hard to find, but they should be hard to find while being easy to find.” That’s literally what you’re saying. Are you trolling, or just worse at arguing than Donald Trump? Because I’ll accept “both” as an answer.
Nemesis mobs should not be hard to find. Full stop. Personally, what I would like to see is a sort of mini-dungeon like the hives/arkovian undercity that have a nemesis of the appropriate type in them. Or maybe just put some sort of tracker on the map that puts the corresponding nemesis symbol on the map so you know what zone to go to (or avoid). There’s a lot of ways to go about this that aren’t “run around the entire world trying to find one of these assholes, then maybe don’t find them at all because they spawned in the ass end of nowhere today.”
edit to add:
If you want to run around and kill things for hours on end, you can do that in just about any game. A game shouldn’t have time sinks, it should have content. Content that is enjoyably repeatable is good, content that has to be repeated a hundred times to see any value is shit. I don’t generally go nemesis “farming” because it’s boring to try to find one, kill it, and then have to track down my reward. If I knew where I was going and what I could generally expect then it might be more fun.
Order, Kymon’s and Cronley’s rep are silly hard to level up. They have very limited appearances, occupy small areas, etc. So the ease of finding these Nemesis later makes sense to me. If it’s true they nerfed the drop rate of these specifically, then it’s a case of the kind of constant obsession with “balance” that overlooks “fun”. That’s exactly the kind of thing that kills good MMOs, incidentally. Really any kind of game in which grind will be inevitable, if subjected to this spreadsheet style of development, will get worse as time goes on.
And it’s so strange that people complain about aspects of grinding but still recommend Crucible. Crucible should never have been made. If Gladiator is that efficient, it makes playing the game a distant second (in terms of loot) to the game which took up 99% of the development budget. You know, the game you bought to play and have fun with. I won’t touch Crucible with a ten foot pole, but I’m still pissed off it exists…a dev team obsessed with balance comes out with a super efficient horde mode that makes their own game pointless. Good job!
Except there is a difference between running around to kill things with absolutely nothing to gain, and running around to kill things with the potential for that big find.
Cronley’s Gang nemesis now has the same loot table as the Kymon’s Chosen and Order of Death’s Vigil nemesis bosses, as he is relatively easier to hunt down as well.
Thats probably my biggest issue with the game. There is no reason why you can kill mobs non-stop for 2 hours on ultimate and not have a single leg drop. You have got to let people get a nibble of the carrot every once in a while.
I love this game but there are times where it feels like I’ve wasted large periods of time due to not having a single leg drop. Sets make the feeling even worse. You really shouldn’t have to farm for mats to roll legs. You shouldn’t have to farm certain bosses for a chance for a leg. You certainly shouldn’t ever run SoT without seeing a leg and at best seeing a common epic.
Once you stop gaining experience the game starts to feel very unrewarding. I have no other way to put it. That needs to change.
Oh I forgot, if I already have sick ass gear on an op build I can farm high level crucible solo. Yeah, that helps.
As of now the game fun but severely lacks end game.
Now let’s look at the completion.
1- Diablo 3
With the introduction of the paragon levels and legendary gems there is a reason of why you can go on on farming with out getting your desired item because while you do it you still can gain something in return.
Now this does fit diablo in it’s current power creep and still it’s a nice carrot that makes the RNG stick more tolerable.
2- POE
Now with this one the best items are usually rare “yellow” items so you can walkaways hunt for those and the mapping system along with the coins and uber posses and collecting currency for trade that is actually supported by the game through unlimited number of stash tabs along with master levels to control the RNG even more.
3- The upcoming Lost ark online are promising all kinds of end game from raids to crafting to world bosses.
I think Grim Dawn which is an amazing game needs something.
Because as of now after 150 hours in i fell the need to sleep while farming and a deep feeling of regret because i wasted my time after putting 2 or 3 hours in with no result.
I will support the game and buy the new expansion because this is a fun game but farming needs to be more focused.
I shouldn’t be spending 1 hour looking for a nemesis on hopes that he drops something for me and get nothing or go in against one of the hardest hitting bosses in the game after spending hours and hours and hours to gain the nemesis statue just so that he doesn’t drop a damn thing.
I say this with all the love to the game and the amazing job the Devs had put into it but over balance is killing it for me.
Yeah, after farming the human bosses and Moo, I can’t tell the difference in drops. That says something about the RNG system here. It’s punishing. But I think more than RNG it’s the loot tables. I have to reset my seed constantly because my computer is junk and crashes a lot. I farm my booty off, but still I get SO many duplicate legendaries. There is a huge pool of them, and yet I’m still getting the same ones. That tells me the really good stuff, like set pieces, are much less likely to drop. There are enough purple items in the game that they could level out the drop rates on higher tier legendaries a bit, cause this is just brutal.
Yet you have the reason why you could play this game for atleast 1k+ hours. If you look at Diablo 3, you may not even need 100 hours to get an good Endgame Gear and after that it gets pretty stale, a lot of my Friends abandoned the Game(sadly) after this… They played their Main-Char farmed fast on gear and than left the Game.
Also Diablo 3 showed us the worst back than, on Vanilla-State where you could put 1k Hours in it, and got ABSOLUTE NOTHING, and are forced to use Auctionhouse to get an decent gear…
In the other Hand, this is the new Generation of Gamers(even the older ones, who played since beginning(aka amiga, c64, atari etc) are infected by this). In one Hand they whine about that Games don’t worth very much anymore, because you can’t spent Hundrets/Thousand Hours into it anymore(like Diablo 2 which could play for 12 Years and still is fun), in the other Hand they want it so casual as possible… no wonder for Call of Duty popularity…
Could you be more condescending?
I played Diablo 2 from the day of it’s release and still play diablo 2.
And you know what?
I can farm Mephisto with my dual ist swords of alibaba with my barb.
Or an isted Oculus sorc.
the run can take less than 40 seconds.
Or do some Baal runs in less than 3 minutes each.
So don’t talk about things you clearly have no idea about.
As for why people still play diablo 2 will that’s because some very strong mods and PVP and people hoping to make the Enigma armor.
But here in order to get anything done you have to run through the entire game searching for a mob that could be for all you know be hiding in an area that requires a skeleton key forceing you to run even more option areas and when you finally drops him he could leave nothing for 30 minutes or so for searching.
Now make them 5 mobs and each one spawns in a different area and you could play for 2 hours teleporting through the entire game with nothing to show for.
Or guess what…you can run the DLC and render the entire game useless.
So which is it?
Obviously it doesn’t make any sense to compare the average playing time of CoD with that of most RPGs or ARPGs.
Many people are already spending hundreds or thousands of hours with GD and are having fun with it (including me). It’s not about “whining that GD isn’t worth very much” and it’s even less about making GD “as casual as possible”.
It’s just about making farming, crafting and trading (especially during end game) as much fun and as rewarding as possible, without compromising balance too much or making the game too casual.
The idea of nemesis bosses that do not actively go after you was already an odd one. The next mistake was to give some of them only a few possible spawnpoints, while others got plenty of them. (It should’ve already been obvious to the devs at this point that this makes some of them easier to farm than others, shouldn’t it?) And then, instead of balancing the number of spawn points, devs decided to simply nerf the crap out of Fabius/Maiden/Zantarin loot, making the smart player simply ignore them and instead farm the same nemesis boss again and again.
This is just not the right way to make farming fun.
This, so much this. I know it was planned from the beginning but it’s just an awful, awful idea. Did the devs not understand the very nature of their own endgame? I won’t touch Crucible but it angers me that it’s the most efficient farming method.
Truth again. It’s strange how the devs make really obvious missteps that could be easily avoided, yet have crafted such a great game overall. It was a bad idea in the first place to make these two factions such a very short piece of the questline and game area. If you are going to make them one of the major factions, they need to be peppered throughout the game area as the others are. Then it wouldn’t have been a problem in the first place. I can maybe understand an optional faction being like this, but certainly not Cronley’s gang.
Having a Nemesis hunt you is a great idea. How cool that would be. They could jump you in uncomfortable moments, like when you are fighting a crucial boss or getting mobbed, just like a movie Nemesis.