That would be nice, those 12 cthonic seal crafting costs on things are insane. But, it would still leave the issue of incentivizing bounty rewards (aside from reputation) unresolved, alongside the issue of making slaying trash mobs of non-hero non-nemesis monsters relevant. I was sort of taking a kill 3 or 4 birds with 1 stone approach there.
I would personally be resistant to approaching any sort of post-level cap XP grind even in a sequel.
Experience is intended to be the progress you accrue towards your character mastering their skill and potential. Seems strange to me that as soon as you hit max that this experience starts going towards loot rewards.
I think I’d rather work in some kind of new system, like rewarding milestones for slaying X monsters or bosses or heroes, or opening chests, etc; although those would probably encourage some negative gameplay experiences like spamming big packs of weak spawns.
The ideal would be having tangible goals that you could work towards and earn rewards, ideally repeatable, that would be conducive to endgame while not just piling on extra rewards for stuff you were doing anyway.
I would encourage you to be hesitant with this. One of the big selling points of GD to me was a comment on quest design made by medierra (or you? Don’t know, can’t find it) on wanting to stay away from the typical “Slay X of Y enemy and report back to me” sort of MMO-style quest. For the most part GD has done a good job at this, though a few bounties (looking at you, “kill 12 reanimators and return to bounty table”) have stooped to such tasks. Likewise, it’s usually those sorts of bounties that I wind up skipping.
I’ve voiced my personal recommendation in the past that I’d like to see Celestial Power levels/experience take more time to max out than base character level, so that even once a character is 100 they can still get that cheery “Level Up!” popup on their screen. I think it’d also be neat for Celestial Powers to be finished later than character levels being as they can only begin leveling later too, even if for a time the two run in parallel.
In general, I agree with the decision to have progression eventually reach a point of finality. But I think that having multiple, parallel progression systems finish at different times can also be pretty fun. Chasing down and completing Path of Exile’s Pantheon gods, for instance, is a fun alternative task (or it would be if Divine Vessels ever dropped! ) to grinding out experience. I’d encourage exploring ideas such as this for a GD2, so that a character’s progression then is not merely filling up an experience bar or a faction bar or some other ‘bar’.
As someone with around 20 SR 65+ characters who is upgrading (which actually pushed one character to 75 consistency) the same gear when finding one with better stats, or is overhauling characters sometimes (up to 100+ugdenbloom per overhaul), and does not like to scrap the item for the component because I find it interesting to keep count of what legendaries drop more than other, I am seeing exploding flowers when I close my eyes, so I wholeheartedly agree.
Iirc you mentioned reworking the bounty system at some point. Is that still something you guys plan to do in the future(maybe I’m remembering that wrong though)?
Designing bounties in a way that makes you kill certain enemies that people tend to skip/not farm at all at lvl 94+ and rewarding you with useful endgame components (blooms/chthonic seals) could solve multiple issues at once. I don’t really think all of this is a huge issue anyway, but it would be a nice change imo.
This way the bounty system would be useful even after reaching revered status and adding another layer of things to do while farming the typical endgame runs people tend to do such as roguelike dungeons, ugdenbloom farming/chthonian seal farming route or farming certain bosses for their MI. Monster totems already added auch an additional layer for both leveling aswell as endgame farming and I think a well redesigned bounty system could be just as good as the monster totems.
Some bounties could even include the “slay x monsters” or “slay x heros” or “slay x bosses” you brought up. This way, depending on your bounty, the playstyle for the run would get an additional twist and make you focus on e.g. either AoE clearing all the trash or killing heros only. Maybe even add a timer to bounties for additional rewards?
There’s lots of potential for bounties to fill some endgame gaps people are seeing.
Anyway, looking forward to your ideas for bounties in the future!
Edit: adding a “bounty bulletin board” of some sort to all big hubs, where you can accept bounties from all factions, would be great aswell. Oh and also the ability to cancel bounties.
While they could improve the bounty system like you describe now and it’d fit in very well as a neat bonus, the way I recall Zantai talking about redoing the bounty system gave me the impression that he’d want to revamp it entirely. Some of the times he has brought it up, I believe he’s mentioned that the current system was cobbled together using the conversation system and that applying it to bounties was something of a stretch in and of itself.
Paragons were a fail according to many ppl including psychologists who claim that ppl need milestones and end goals to encourage progress. Grinds with no end in sight do not play well with human psychology.
That’s also a great idea. Whether it would turn into a negative gameplay experience is a matter of careful design of such milestones.
That’s not necessarily a bad thing. There’s fun in choosing your farming grounds. For example making Ugdenblooms exclusive to Ugdenbog (though I think they should not be exclusive to that area but more like prevalent) is a good thing. People don’t get pissed so much having to farm there because lots of good stuff drops in Ugdenbog like Living Rings, Vine rings, Janaxxia/Laria daggers, that soldier belt, etc. As opposed to SoT and Alkamos farming - people hate it because there’s nothing of value to get from there except the main target farm. And it’s a long way without any good drops on the side.
The celestial power idea is nice but I think the main negative is I don’t really notice/read those messages (do they always appear after combat ends or during too? they are that unnoticeable to me lol). Moving the position of text towards the middle of screen would help. The level sound itself isn’t exactly stimulating either. I think it would help to improve that so the player is more involved in progression. My favourite level up sound is from FFXI, it never got old, https://youtu.be/_qTUwVvxWBc?t=7.
Yeah. Good mention of the Pantheon system. Far more appropriate for a single player game than paragon. If the targets were Nemesis boss, then its gated behind the infamy system, which wouldn’t be fun. Though I guess the infamy system is the closest thing to continued character development post-100 (even if it isn’t a stat that affects combat stats).
The extra stat quest rewards are OK, but short-lived. I always disliked the AoM quest though, because the fight is way too easy compared to Hidden Path/FG.
The Bounty System was cobbled together from a pack of bubble gum and a stack of paper clips. It serves a purpose, but if I were to go back and redesign it, it would take substantial work and is simply beyond the scope of anything we’d do with GD at this point.