Analysis on why endgame DK is as overpowered if not more than that Valdun melee Piercing build

[Avatar_of_Dreeg]

It’s already one of the best exclusive skills, lol (if not THE best!).

I was not entirely serious when I said that. If any exclusive skills require priority it would be Primal Bond (very bad) and Harbinger of Souls (just…bad). The chaos resistance part, though, it’s not what it used to be since the game is almost trivial now in what concerns overcapping your resistances.

[Norzan]

It’s already one of the best exclusive skills, lol (if not THE best!). It gives not just damage absorbtion, but also 100% disruption resist, chaos resist, damage bonuses and even flat chaos damage!

Please tell me you’re joking. Master of Death, Menhir’s Bulwark, Oleron’s Rage and Aura of Conviction are just flat out better. Possession damage bonuses are mediocre (135% damage modifier means nothing in ultimate and flat damage only concerns skills with weapon damage, which Occultist has very few), 15% damage absorption is not much, skill disruption is really situational, and chaos resist is really easy to get (and it’s mainly for chaos builds, which have overcapped chaos resist before even turning Possession on). Overall, Possession is very mediocre.

[Avatar_of_Dreeg]

15% damage absorption is not much

12%. You get 16% at 22/12, but if you have that amount of + skills to Possession you wouldn’t invest all the way to the hard cap due to diminishing returns to begin with.

[Norzan]

12%. You get 16% at 22/12, but if you have that amount of + skills to Possession you wouldn’t invest all the way to the hard cap due to diminishing returns to begin with.

I always thought it was 15% at level 12 but i guess it’s 12%. I always put the full 12 points myself.

[berker_zo]

[Norzan]

Too late at this point. And if you think the devs are going to destroy this build, they never do unless it was a build that took advantage of a broken, unintentional mechanic.

[jtrand]

I think this build is fine the way it is

[berker_zo]

Too late at this point. And if you think the devs are going to destroy this build, they never do unless it was a build that took advantage of a broken, unintentional mechanic.

Yeah I know, I just don’t want to have to turn this toon into an s/b witchblade v2 come 1.0.4

I’m also slightly triggered by the title, possibly.

[Crauler]

This means that against physical damage, that 2.5k HP bonus is basically Possession or, at the very least, the thing that makes Possession important. Sure, you don’t do battles only vs. physical damage mobs and bosses, BUT, the fact that at 22/12 the EHP provided by Spectral Binding is essentially the same as the %absorption of Possession in the cases that matter should raise some questions. DK is far tankier than Witch Blades have ever been…

You know the thing about Turtle Shell, where it’s mediocre, because it’s a single HP buffer? 2.5k HP is good, no doubt, but unlike the damage absorption, it DOES NOT reduce incoming damage. You can take more damage, but you still receive as much damage per second as everyone else. And you need to counteract that DPS with your health per second.
The tankiness is from ADCtH(multiplied from life leech reduction)+Shield combo, not the HP.

[Chthon]

You know the thing about Turtle Shell, where it’s mediocre, because it’s a single HP buffer? 2.5k HP is good, no doubt, but unlike the damage absorption, it DOES NOT reduce incoming damage. You can take more damage, but you still receive as much damage per second as everyone else. And you need to counteract that DPS with your health per second.
The tankiness is from ADCtH(multiplied from life leech reduction)+Shield combo, not the HP.

Well this maybe true but it does’t change the fact that Possession kind of mediocre when compared to some other exclusives. They could up the damage absorption to Primal Bond levels, it’d help Witch Hunters a lot

I was not entirely serious when I said that. If any exclusive skills require priority it would be Primal Bond (very bad) and Harbinger of Souls (just…bad). The chaos resistance part, though, it’s not what it used to be since the game is almost trivial now in what concerns overcapping your resistances.

Did you forget that Censure is bad or you don’t think it’s bad at all?

It’s basically just extra RR, when compared to Conviction which provides both offense and defense Censure is really lacking

[Avatar_of_Dreeg]

Did you forget that Censure is bad or you don’t think it’s bad at all?

Yes, I forgot Censure existed :))

@Crauler: some pages ago I made a detailed break-down of all the defensive layers DKs have at their disposal. Therefore your point was already brought up. The Possession part was simply to point out that 12% absorption is not that much vs physical damage in the end-game and physical damage is the most dangerous type if we leave aside life% reduction bosses and RR reduction.

It is not just ADctH + Block, it is actually the whole chain, because they have:

1. Deflection (Krieg adds 16% if I remember right) and it is first layer in the reduction chain.
2. DA (it is a Soldier build, after all);
3. Armour (again, it is a soldier build and Krieg is heavy armour);
4. Physical resistance (12%).
5. %Absorption - Menhir’s Bullwark >> Possession.
6. Flat absorption - Overguard.

Block is added immediately after (2) and ADctH simply becomes more powerful as you progress in the game and you: a) have the means to reduce incoming damage; and b) have the means to deal more and more damage.

I think DaShiv put it correctly some pages ago: Krieg does TOO many things right as a set. I would remove deflection, and reduce physical resistance to 9% at least as well as CDR (which is better on Spellscourge, IMO). The part about Haunt synergy and Mindwarp was already discussed ad nauseam so let’s not bring it again…the point is not to butcher the set, but address the separate moving parts that make Krieg DK stand out. The set in itself is just one part of the equation, a part which I believe represents around 33% of the success variance. Some ppl would say the flat amount of aether on Spectral Binding is another 33% and Haunt + Mindwarp, the last.

[reapersgaze]

Really like this idea, actually.

Ditto.

/10char

[TankPet]

Who keeps bringing this up? It’s like that other thread where someone called Inquisitor class the strongest one

check the facts yourself its the strongest class to amplify flat (aether) damage on weapon attacks.

i’m not asking for nerfs on Soldier just for some adjustments.

topic of this thread is analysis why dk is so powerful. Soldieris part of dk class combo correct me if i got it completly wrong :rolleyes:

1. reducing flat aether on Krieg’s Set will not Change that Krieg dk is by far more powerful then Krieg bm it will just tune both of them down.

2. Removing necro skill bonusses, wont Change much aether dk will still be > aether bm

3. reducing spectral bindings flat aether damage would also hurt other class combinations utilizing that skill more then aether dk. (because again aether dk has enough anyways thanks to amplifiers through weapon skills)

4. haunt relic good point there.

5. mindwarp, suggestions already made earlier by others seem reasonable.

6. 80% conversion on those gauntlets for blitz + another flat aether to blitz mod on the helm -> maybe switch that for CT Aether mods if the set was intended more as a Arcanist/Battlemage oriented set anyways?

7. moving full set’s flat aether bonus to arcanist inner focus as item skill mod is also an option

[fireflame]

Enough with class nerfs.This is why i avoidBlizzard games like the plague they are. I dont play death knight but please just don’t ruin the fun of people who do.

Also while this game has a multiplayer part, a lot of players play mainly solo.Meaning that even if they play an overpowered build, it wont affect your own experience and you can choose to not play an overpowered build.

[hellcat]

To point out the elephant in the room - the problem is the RR mechanic as a whole.
People go for necro just to place a couple of points here and there, and call it a day. A mechanic that powerful.

There’s no balance problems with soldier being too versatile (while it’s partially true), nor this class is the reason for DK being too powerful itself.
It’s partially the imba set, but mostly the Spectral Wrath. If we take this single node out of the equation, no one would ever play this cross-class, but BM instead.
The greatest problem with the set is, it makes possible for players to over exploit a skill with super high base WD.

Time ago, Crate were on a crusade and partially purged the reliance on RR. I don’t know why did they stop.

[TankPet]

just to place a couple of points here and there, and call it a day. A mechanic that powerful.

that applies to arcanist when played as aether battlemage aswell to some degree :rolleyes:

you’ll need some more points into the arcanist mastery compared to necro, because the juicy stuff is somewhat deeper into arcanist mastery.

It’s partially the imba set, but mostly the Spectral Wrath.

easiest solution would switch some of the aether values of the set to arcanist skills as item mods as i already said. I dont see a problem with Spectral wrath, if at most switch some of the + spectral wrath of the set to other necro skill bonusses but a change in Spectral wrath itself is not needed in my opinion.

Time ago, Crate were on a crusade and partially purged the reliance on RR. I don’t know why did they stop.

do you mean the times where most builds regardless of damage type went manticore to get enough rr? :rolleyes:

[somnium]

To point out the elephant in the room - the problem is the RR mechanic as a whole.
People go for necro just to place a couple of points here and there, and call it a day. A mechanic that powerful.

There’s no balance problems with soldier being too versatile (while it’s partially true), nor this class is the reason for DK being too powerful itself.
It’s partially the imba set, but mostly the Spectral Wrath. If we take this single node out of the equation, no one would ever play this cross-class, but BM instead.
The greatest problem with the set is, it makes possible for players to over exploit a skill with super high base WD.

Time ago, Crate were on a crusade and partially purged the reliance on RR. I don’t know why did they stop.

I have no problem with a reduction on rr but it needs to be combined with a global reduction on enemy resistances.
When you have enemies have 90+ resistance to a certain damage types (for example flesh hulks have a 98% aether res) or even 100+ (for example void leech have a 125% vitality res) then add in hero titles even that can even further boost those resistances, often to outright or near immunity without a large(70+) amount of rr.
If you combine this with that the game heavily favors specialization in 1 or 2 damage types you need lots and lots of rr.

[Scryed]

I play a duel wielding DK at the moment, and don’t think it’s remotely as powerful as other builds. I’ve yet to see a DK run a high end gladiator Crucible. Think people need to actually play the classes at end game content before making posts about it being overpowered and needing a nerf.

[hellcat]

You can’t exploit blitz at its finest while playing DW (plus menhir’s bulwark in addition), hence your observations over DK’s lategame damage potential/survivability (shield).

But got to agree, that if you don’t follow a narrow progression path with this class, it’s far from OP.

Once again - the cross-class is far from imba itself, it’s the combination of some of the set bonuses and RR in general to make it look like OP.

[jabs]

All I know is that I’m having an utter BLAST with the game again, ever since I finally got my last set piece of Krieg’s to drop.

That, and the fact that I had the prescience of mind to disregard the bitching about DK’s weakness, and roll with my theory-crafting instinct.