I’ve considered making the supply limited or possibly even not having them for sale. I’ve also thought about allowing players to create potions from ingredient drops. In that case there would be a decision to make potions vs. using the ingredients to make other useful things like item upgrades. If they remain on merchants, they will be quite expensive.
I’m not depending on rarity to limit people’s potion use though. That will primarily come in the form of a long cool-down.
While I’m not hot on the healing-orb system as a replacement for health potions, I do like the way health potions are balanced in WoW. I do actually like the idea of random instant-use drops like healing orbs and shrine-like buffs, just not as the sole means of healing. Not without knowing I had a lot of time to test it…
Mmmm, having potions overly limited will make solo playing most classes harder - nature will suddenly be very popular :o - or making people sit idly while they wait for HP/MP to regenerate, which will be boring as anything. Or town trips.
If you are keen on having pots limited could we have some sort of “Rest” thing like NWN (full HP/MP regen over a short time providing no enemies within a reasonable radius and no combat in the last 15 seconds or so), or at least boosted regen when idle?
Having some other sort of not pot based healing method doesn’t really change much, just makes things more complicated.
How about pots for sale, just always at least a level below what the drops are (lesser pots for sale when you are using/needing normals)? Low level pots are a nuisance at best in fights, as they hit the CD but don’t give enough HP to keep you alive, but still can be used in between. Also, the price can be adjusted to make them less of an option.
edit Oh, how about the soul shrine/pool respawn points heal you when you stand next to them? If they are scattered as frequently as they are now that would be ok. Far enough apart to make heal trips annoying, but not so far as it makes glass cannon classes annoying to play. Also, it would make some sort of sense when you think about what they do - restore you from 0hp to full when you die…
Right now you go into fast-regen if you haven’t been damaged in 3 seconds. It takes about 5-6 seconds to go from 1 to 100% health.
It is essentially just the same as being able to chug potions without a timer except that you can’t do it while you’re being hit (which I think makes the combat a little more interesting than standing still in the middle of a group of enemies pounding potions) and you don’t have to chug an actual potion.
I think the greatest benefit is that it eliminates all those times between groups of enemies where you have to down a potion. If you survive an encounter you just start running to the next one and by the time you get there, you’re usually back to full health.
Potions management is very crucial to overall feels in ARPG.
Fast regen after without damages for 3 seconds.
Fast regen 1%-100% in 5 or 6 seconds.
Crafting potions from ingredients, which player have to make decision to use ingredients for potions or for crafting other items.
Item will not available at merchant. If it is (available), it will be very limited and expensive. No expensive price could actually make potion expensive if money are redundant but it will works if potions is limited. Btw, lets not make expensive ‘ridiculous’.
Voted for auto-pickup especially if it is stackable in large bunch (Better have 99 than 50) and potions is scarce.
Not sure if I’m agree with single potion type. I think it remove the magic sense of getting better potion (larger potion).
Again, if there are variety of potion type, auto-pickup should only pick-up if there is at least one in the inventory. Meaning that, for the first potion, you have to pick it up. The following will be automated.
Hotkey (or disable/enable option) for auto-pickup would satisfies everyone.
After all, this mechanic will have flaw somewhere but sometimes system flaws are made intentionally. If everything going so smoothly, no intense moment or challange will be there.
Anyways, undesired flaws will be recognize later in alpha and beta stages so it can be tuned up and improved. There is always patch after release too. But of course, release should be out in great condition.
In Diablo 3 Health potions still exist, they haven’t gone away. They simply have a long cool-down on them. They are like the “Oh crap, no orbs!” type of item.
Also, health orbs can be saved, they don’t disappear right away, you’re allowed to save them for the current “mini-area” you’re in, and they only disappear when you go roughly 2 screens away. So the player isn’t constantly back-tracking to try and get HP.
Also, a lot of skills in Diablo 3 have been developed to take advantage of having an over-flow effect of health (if you use a health orb with 100% HP) then you get a buff benefit with certain skills. Or simply skills that buff the player when they use a health orb.
Health orbs regenerate the HP of the player and his allies.
I think this is just Blizzard’s solution to, rather then, potion chugging, leeching life, or regenerating it fast (which can cause a player low on health to run away) simply rewarding the player for killing things, and telling them that, being damaged is bad. So, Blizzard is giveing their players good defensive skills, then they’ll be able to avoid a lot of damage. You need good defensive skills if you can’t guarantee the player will always have health recovery.
But health potions are still in D3, they haven’t been removed, and even buff potions now exist.
I just wanted to clarify that for you Medierra.
Also, anything to reduce potion chugging (of all kinds) and increase strategic decisions, I’m all for.
I like the idea of long cool-downs on potions (even mana potions). I like the idea of not having potions for sale, for sure, potions should be cool to find, not a spammy unlimited item.
This sounds a little fast, considering situations where you simply dodge a bigger nuke used by the boss you will almost trigger this, possibly making the player get a “oh might as well” feeling whenever he had to do so, not to mention brittle ranged classes that normally easily go for longer periods of time without taking damage, especially when fighting slow/ranged bosses.
Have you considered making the regen only activate when there are no monsters chasing you or just lenghtening the times when there are?
I think it would be cool if health potions had their own item slot, so you couldn’t stack beyond say 99 potions. It would also save the player an item slot, and probably be easier to handle.
If health potions only drop from enemies, and they always have a low chance to drop, it would make it a pretty exciting event to see them drop.
So, even if you can stack health potions to 99, it would still be pretty cool to see them drop if they were rare. Which they should be rare, even off of unique enemies, etc. This would have the benefit of saving the player from using up item slots for potion stacks, and it would make health potions awesome to see.
Also - it would, somewhat, increase health management if you couldn’t have unlimited potions. Even with a long (say 30 second to minute) cool-down, limiting potions a little more wouldn’t hurt much, who’s going to use 99 health potions in 99 minutes, or even 50 minutes, without finding more potions?
Ah cool, ok, that makes more sense. I don’t really keep up much with D3, so most of my info comes from things people post about it on the board. I’m definitely interested in D3 as a player but as a designer I don’t really want to know what they’re doing because I don’t want it to affect my decision-making.
For example, health orbs are very similar in functionality to the idea I had for taking the current shrine functionality and adding it to random drops. After hearing about what D3 had planned I felt like maybe I shouldn’t do that. There is a lot of convergent thinking in the game industry and you see it with movies and such as well. I think we are all influenced by same trends and new ideas circulating around and, because we all think along similar lines, it is all too easy for multiple people to all arrive at the same next logical step in the evolution of an idea.
That goes for evolution in nature, too. Different species might develop the same features independently. Don’t be shy - present the world’s first D3-clone before D3 has been released.
I figured the health orb idea originally came from beatemups like god of war and devil may cry. The most rpg’ish game I’ve seen them in I think is marvel ultimate alliance. In MUA, they even work in such a way that anyone who stands nearby an orb being picked up by another player gets the effect, which I believe is exactly what D3 is doing.
Sure clicking on loot and pots takes some time but it also helps breakup the repetition of the game mechanics. This is a good thing imo
I’m not crazy about the health orbs in D3, sure it “sounds” somewhat logical to say that it keeps you playing/fighting…but I don’t want to fight for extended lengths of time without the need to do something different.
There needs to be “some” lvl of realism and reflective actions in the game that keep you moving, thinking, changing things up so you don’t get into a daze of repetition.
Don’t sell yourself short, Medierra, just because other developers are doing something similar doesn’t mean that it’s bad, in fact, it’s pretty cool when game genres evolve and get better. I think the power up idea that you presented is very unique, and not totally the same as what D3 is doing.
Think of it this way, making a game more fun, and interesting is generally a good thing. You don’t want to hold back your creativity just because other developers are doing something similar. I think the idea of power ups is very different from health orbs, they’re 2 different mechanics.
Health orbs are a way for the player to replenish health and continue battling.
Power ups are different because they provide a unique advantage for the player. Might I suggest, applying those power ups to all players on the screen. Or making them drop individually and apply individually per player.
Obviously you want to try and do things differently, but things that work have been “copied” from other games all the time, and there’s no fault in that. If it makes the game more fun, then why not? I know you guys aren’t trying to copy anyone, you’re just trying to make a fun game for your fans, and I think we can all appreciate that, but don’t block features from your game just because other’s are doing it, just add what makes sense, and what makes the game fun.
Make them drop individually per player, and apply individually per player.
Some people would say this is too much like an “arcade” the difference is, most arcade games don’t give you the depth of customization that an ARPG does. ARPG’s have depth and feel that arcade games generally lack, arcade games tend to be quick, shoot-shoot, or slash-slash, with fewer deep decisions.
I say, go Medierra!
Edit: To be relevant to thread - I still like auto-potion pick ups.
Edit 2: Medierra, maybe you should create a seperate post about orb power-ups when you get a chance, to see what people think.
I wouldn’t mind auto-potion pickup as long as there is a way to control it. One way of doing this would be to set a maximum. So I would be able to set it to say… 20, and after I have 20 I won’t automatically pick anymore up. Note that this wouldn’t stop me from manually picking them up.
I have a couple of questions regarding some things you said medierra:
Did this seem overpowered at all during your play-testing?
Does this mean that there won’t be any mechanics similar to life-leeching?
Also, power-ups sound like they could be pretty cool
ah wow, I hadn’t considered setting a maximum, that’s something I’d definitely like. I’m pretty sure most of us have a target specific amount of potions in these type of games, an amount that rarely changes during the course of a playthrough.
