(B17) Nightblade Changes...

So, for a while I’ve been thinking about a bit of rework on Nightblade and some comments on the forum reinforced the idea that the class could benefit from it.

I don’t want to totally rip the class apart and I’m not thinking of anything too drastic. Here’s what I had in mind:

  1. Make blade trap more powerful / make the trap AoE. Move it to where Blade Swarm currently resides.

  2. Get rid of Blade Swarm… it makes the class too castery, where it should really have more weapon based attacks. It’s also difficult to effectively balance in a way that makes it useful without outclassing other skills.

  3. Add a new weapon attack where Blade Trap used to be except have it start at tier 1, so the NB has immediate access to some damage boosting attack.

  4. Turn Dual Blades into a passive skill (instead of a chance to proc weapon pool skill) that enables dual wield and just adds a constant bonus to pierce.

EDIT - I should add, phantom blades is moving to tier 2, devouring blades will remain the blade trap mod and will be tier 8. I’m thinking nightfall will move to tier 9, since it is a pretty uber mod and makes more sense there than devouring blades.

So, the big question is, what should the new tier 1 attack do? What should its modifier do? Since its a starting skill, it should be fairly simple. One possibility is a default attack type skill like firestrike / cadence, that replaces your left mouse attack. I’m not sure I like that though since it would reduce the benefit of taking one of those skills from other masteries. What I’m learning towards though is a weapon attack that is either higher energy cost / lower dmg with no cooldown, or something with a short cooldown but higher dmg. I’d thought possibly some +%pierce dmg with a good bleed DoT and maybe speed reduction?

Anyway, I’d be interested to hear some ideas. Don’t get too crazy. :stuck_out_tongue: If I’m going to do this, I need to finish it in the next couple days, so it can’t require new tech. What do you think would be useful and fitting?

  1. What will happen with Devouring Blades if you move Blade trap? Will if be renamed and tie into the new skill?

  2. I never liked Blade Swarm. I agree it needs to go.

  3. I don’t know that the new skill needs to be tier 1. There are already 3 there and moving it would leave only a passive and a buff on tier 5. I’d say put the new skill right where Blade Trap is now.

As for immediate access to a damage skill, that’s what Phantasmal Blades is for. I think making Dual Blades a passive and giving a skill like Cadence/Fire Strike might be a little OP for tier 1.

  1. I like the idea of Dual Blades as a passive, but if it’s not going to have a % change to be used, I wonder if the +% Pierce Damage should be adjusted down some? At rank 8 +150% might be a bit OP if it’s a passive.

As for the ideas for the new skill, I’m not sure. The Nightblade is already pretty badass. Some kind of small AoE poison cloud with a short daze, like Flashbang might be fun, but OP. The cloud daze would probably be a % chance and maybe cause some enemies to attack each other for 3 seconds? Again, this may be OP.

I’ll wait to see what others suggest and maybe I will come up with something.

Oh, and though it might be too much like TQ, one thing I think that would be perfect for a Nightblade is some kind of thrown turret trap, like those avatar like mobs in TQ throw. That might be a fun new skill! :slight_smile:

I don’t think a quick active is particularly valuable for the class. Right now you have some pretty quick skills like shadowstrike and ring of steel that go of in the 2 to 3 timeframe. Also you want a good number of base swings for the dual blade procs to go of. So you left with either a lmb skills or an aura or a long cool down high damage strike.
out of those honestly the lmb skill is the best choice just like something you had in the rogue mastery.
or an aura that just adds to constant cold/poison damage like soliels witchfire.

I agree on all points.

For the new level 1 skill (or make it the next tier up) I would suggest the NB delivering a single stab on the target for some large single target damage. Delivering the stab also shoots out a number of blades around the creature dealing AoE damage to nearby enemies (as AoE is lacking when there is only Belgothian’s Shear, Phantasmal Blades is more single target unless you line up enemies).

Cooldown of like 3-5 seconds and damage type would be phyiscal or pierce for the initial stab and then I guess… bleeding/poison/cold/frostburn damage (you choose) since the NB has passives that would boost that damage.

Or instead while delivering the stab a wave of blades shoots out from your character to deal the AoE.

Or maybe for something a little more crazy have a shadow of the Nightblade appear behind the target to deal the single stab to the back while the real nightblade throws the wave of knives at both the target and enemies nearby. More about illusion/knives which may fit though probably would be hard to do.

Cool idea but let me reiterate - don’t get too crazy. :stuck_out_tongue:

One idea for blade trap, is to allow it to be either resisted or broken. If it is broken, then its duration is shortened but the process of breaking it incurs damage, perhaps approximately equal to the total damage if not broken.

My playing of nightblade characters is mostly low level and also probably not as long as some players.

I notice that, easily, a nightblade is better off with a single weapon and a shield even it he has points in dual blades lineup. (even more so with a second weapon that is weaker or without a magic effect or component).

I don’t like missing so I have been allocating all most all attribute points into cunning but try to place a significant number of skill points into the mastery.

Equipping a second blade lowers attack speed (and the indicated dps). The chance-to-occur skills in the dual blade lineup seem compensate some times better than others.

The blade weapons and/or pierce damage seems a bit weak, at the lower levels.

At times, the character can die or require evasion on relatively simple encounters.

A parry or counterattack could help but I wonder if it will make the character another tank-- and won’t or shouldn’t be needed when you have other later skills such at RoS.

Perhaps I need try a spread of the low level skills and more attention to armor (but iron is limited) in the current build.

Can a weak passive counter attack be upgraded and replaced by an RoS active skill?

+1 to this:D

How about a stacking attack (via onslaught) buff that deals coldburn/pierce damage? Nightblade doesn’t have a LMB skill that I can think of.

Get over there!!

Pull enemy with roped knife and stun for 1 sec.
Or another version throw magical(illusional) knife that teleport enemy in your melee range and stun for a second.
Deal with your prey what you want teleport him to self or himself to him.:cool:

I like this idea and second it. A lmb skill is a great idea for the ni ghtblade.


Yes but then there is the issue of too many LMB skills. We already have Cadence, Firestrike, and Eye of Dreeg.

Do we really want a pattern to continue and have Arcanist/Nightblade have the same thing?

Default attack is my LMB with Dual Wield tree and I’m fine with how that is.

Awesome on all four ideas. :smiley:

How about a short dash attack that deals piercing damage to foes passed through and slows them? Would that require new tech? Modifier could add cold/frostburn damage and either +% piercing dmg or % damage dealt gained as life. Edit: The core concept of a dash attack was originally DeMasked’s idea.

It would be weird if the Arcanist doesn’t have a no-cooldown spell…it seems to be a primary caster. LMB skills are fun; if they make sense for the mastery they belong to then so be it.

It’s not that adding an LMB skill to the Nightblade would feel forced, it’s that Firestrike and Cadence would become less desirable on hybrid characters (as Med stated in his original post).

I always wonder why NB did not have a LMB skill attack for my witchblade.
Finally something worthy!

As for skill, what about attack speed increase per attack up to 10 stacks?

first kill - 5% asi (attack speed increase)
second kill - 10%
third kill - 20%
fourth kill - 40%
fifth kill - 80%

maybe up to 300%?

  1. It could be an interesting change. We have to see how it feels in the game. I agree to the more powerful, i am not sure if i want it an AoE skill.

  2. Ok.

  3. Thinking about it…

  4. So just no more both weapons attack?

If thats the case with Dual Blades, i would add a new active skill in tier 1 where you can strike with both weapons and call it “Double Strike” or “Razor Blades” or “Double Cross” or something:

30 energy cost
3 second cooldown
70% weapon damage (both weapons combined damage)

+5% bleeding damage
10 piercing damage

…or something like that, you get the idea. You already have the animations set for attack with both weapons so i guess it will be easily implemented to the class.

i m glad Medierra share us this changes about NB class.hope in future if the make changes with other skills the inform us again to not lose my chars and points, so i will remove all point now and make safe.ty again Medierra for that.

For a new skill, I’d suggest a low-ish damage Cold based melee attack with a chance to freeze. Synergy could add a frostburn component (possibly AOE).

Why? There are 2 skills in the current tree that boost cold damage, but only 1 skill that does cold damage, and there are already 2 frostburn skills.

Personally, I never felt Nightblade as solid and dense class. Traps don’t fit into the description of assassins, which attack in plain sight. Poison feels like rudiment of Shadow mastery from Titan Quest without understandable connection to other skills in mastery.

Like “Why “Nidalla’s hidden hand” doesn’t add poison damage to all basic attacks?” Do Nightblade decides “now I will do whirling death attack”, opens vial with poison, dips it on blade, makes attack and clears blades with sponge?

Nightblade doesn’t need LMB autoattack, because we already have LMB-attack from relic:
Beronath’s Fury (Level )
Strike out at your enemies with the fury of the great beast Beronath. When used as your default weapon attack, Beronath’s Fury increase the intensity of your attacks with every strike.
+10% Total Damage
+8 Offensive Ability
5 Charge Levels

What Nightblade needs as Tier 1 skill - partial conversion of raw damage into pierce damage. Honing aura from Shadow mastery. Because it is possible to reach Warden without getting any piercing weapon, with all skills getting benefits from pierce…

You know what, this seems to be the best compromise. The problem is you’ve got a highly attractive pure nightblade dwer. I’ve also considered a crossbows only skill, boosting pierce conversion to make the ranged nb more prominent. The whole DW line should feel like a lmb skill, but sad trurh is you need onslaught for it to feel powerful.

What relic gives this and why don’t I have it yet? :slight_smile: