What kills me is the amount of gatekeeping what builds and items people can use and elitist gamer mindset I see on here. “You have a build that can clear 150 crucible and main ultimate campaign but can’t clear 170 crucible? Completely unviable, don’t play it, and don’t waste your time!” The mindset I’ve seen on here numerous times makes me hesitant to post any builds at all anymore.
Someone might think that. But looking through a lot of threads I can´t say that this is the case in most of the build threads.
What you get is feedback, sometimes even critic. It seems harsh and someone will call your build a “Meme”-build, but others will only tell what you could make better. It´s up to you if you want to spend your time and make up a thread and don´t get many clicks.
For me, I don´t bother. I don´t think many people will play my Bleeding Elementalist. Only a few people read this thread.
If you have fun with a build and can tell people why this is the case…think about posting it.
There isn’t requirement of completing Gladiator 170 or SR 75 in order to post a build. It’s the challenges so called “elitists” loves to beat. But I don’t think people will be criticizing build just because it’s not capable of being unstoppable machine 
Your first mentality should be, to play and post what you like. There isn’t guarantee that anyone else will play your build so do it not for others but for yourselves.
To be fair when playing for MC only is sometimes communicated as being a “limitation” rather than than a “more casual playstyle” I can understand if people get offended sometimes. But tbh the veteran builders are very supportive and helpful so I personally don’t really mind the choice of words too much. Just keep in mind that a lot of players are viewing the game from a totally different angle aswell.
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As someone who does see builds that don’t do Crucible 170, SR 75+ and personally, Superbosses as non viable, I can tell you that I for one won’t berate anyone if they don’t follow the same criteria as me.
However, I do keep that personal standard as I am sort of a completionist and at the same time, if my builds can do that all, it means they can also Cruise through the story with ease. So everyone wins.
At the same time I also have stuff like Pet Purifier…
However, if someone asks me for advice and asks for my opinion or help with things like say… Pet Hybrids, I will tell them "Completely unviable, don’t play it, and don’t waste your time!”. But not out of any malice or bad intentions, but to genuinely prevent regret down the line as Time is indeed precious and not everyone GDStashes builds.
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Look at it this way…if people are attacking builds rather than providing constructive feedback, just report it to the moderators.
Note however…feedback is not an attack by definition. Some people take things a little too personally. But if someone is putting down a builder just because they don’t meet their arbitrary definition of viability, action can and will be taken.
People reacts differently to feedbacks. Also it’s tough to always understand the intention/logic used by the person from the other end of the screen. But doubt most people of the forum have ill intentions and their goal is to launch personal attacks.
Also this conversation is getting too hypothetical. Part of build diversity is not just different builds being posted but also builds posted by different players!
Please don’t quote me out of context. I’ve never once said that the decision to play in MC, and only in MC, is a limitation.
I’m saying that evaluating the viability of a build by solely assessing how it performs in MC is a limitation.
Talking about constructive feedback, can we please return back to the topic of how Crate has implemented diversity well and how it can be further improved 
edit: @sir_spanksalot don’t get me wrong I think you are a great builder and very helpful aswell. Just wanted to point out a possible reason why Haplox reacted the way he did. As I said, I think your intentions are very good, and its just the wording that some people misunderstand.
I suppose that misinterpretation is possible?
But for the record, I was discussing the differing criteria people use to assess a build’s viability as seen in the above quote.
Hence, “limiting oneself to MC” = limiting your assessment of a build solely to its performance in MC
Just seemed like a more concise way of phrasing things.
@jrc: No hard feelings, mate. Just wanted to clarify any possible misunderstandings
Intention or not, there are ways to convey criticism without making the other person feel like an idiot.
This goes for feedback to game devs too, except game devs will just ignore you if you act like an asshole, or they’ll just ban you.
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So a couple of weeks ago I hit the milestone (after 1300+) hours of having legitimately leveled a character to 100 in every class. That’s a full 36. Everyting from caster to pet to 2-hand to DW to range pistols, etc.
50% of those were builds from the compendiums. Of the remaining 50% about half started from the compendium but I tinkered with them and changed them more to my tastes and the other 50% are original builds that I made up using the knowledge I’ve gleaned from you all here (plus see NOTE below.)
For the past two weeks I’ve been running 35/36 in SR to get the final 3 skill points and 1 attribute point (I had done almost NONE up to this point - all the leveling was done in campaign mode). So far I’ve been able to clear that on every single build.
Next up is my attempt to hit 50/51 with every single on of them. My gut from the run of 35/36 says most of them will do it. Some will probably seriously struggle and a small few may not clear it. After that having played them all enough by this time I’ll have a good idea about which ones really fit my love of the genre and I’ll probably take a few to tackle 65/66 and maybe even 75/76. But I’m not really going to spend a lot of time with that. Farming 50/51 is probably were my comfort zone will sit.
From my vantage, this is pretty damn good diversity.
NOTE: I often pick my class skill set based around lore/story ideas. I’ve been playing DnD since 1978 and have a ton of characters that I’ve loved over the years as well as the numerous inspirations from literature. Plus, I’m a film maker and I shot a feature film two years ago set in an original fantasy setting so a number of my gaming characters are based on the characters from the film. 
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And while I’m at it, allow me to directly address this.
Firstly, let me quell this assumption of yours - There is NO gatekeeping whatsoever. At least none perpetuated by the theorycrafters in this community.
This misunderstanding, imo, stems from a lack of context - that is to say the crafting community here tends to discuss the how viable a build is at handling end game content.
In fact, I would even argue that these ultra-late game builds are NOT viable builds for beginners and less experienced players. Which is why we also have a compendium for beginners.
The community here also very much so welcomes thematic builds, inefficient builds, of which I’ve done several. The most recent of which was my ABB spamming witch hunter.
So please don’t pin your insecurities on others.
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@haplox: And to show definitively how welcoming the people you’ve unfairly dubbed “elitist” are…
^These were the responses I got for my ABB spammer
Disclosure - I cropped out a few irrelevant replies between the 2 shown above
EDIT: One final thing I wish to add, crafters here will only actively and harshly disparage a build if the author of said build falsely advertises its capabilities.
For example, if I posted this and titled my build as such, “[1.1.4.2] KING OF ALL BUILDS, 2MIN 170 CLEAR”, then yes. I will be insulted. I will be met with a lot of negativity and aggression.
The feedback you gave on my build was what I was looking for and actually helped to improve it. I also got other positive feedback around the build. Some of the other comments were not so constructive to improving the build and were pretty much along the lines of elitist gate-keeping.
I see. Then forget those guys dude. If you let the naysayers hold you back, you’ll never do what you want to do. And if you let them make you be too afraid of exposing your “inexperience” to the world at large, you’ll find it difficult to progress.
We all start from somewhere.
Also, if it’s any consolation, I’ve found that the people who often condemn others the loudest, and the harshest tend to be rather inexperienced themselves.
The proverbial “empty kettle makes the most noise” rings true here.
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The thing is, I don’t like Crucible. I don’t have “fun” playing a survival mode repetitively. (I don’t mind SR however).
My issue these days is that “99% of feedback” is all from crucible experience. You can’t help but feel that one just shouldn’t have an opinion and your original quote whether intentional or not pretty much conveys this.
I’m not at all advocating that we use crucible experience, and only crucible experience, to assess a build’s quality. In fact, many crafters don’t.
Plenty of things are used in MC to quantitatively demonstrate how viable a build is:
- MQ kill time
- Gargabol kill time
- Dummy kill time
- etc. et.c
But like it or not, the crucible is used as the most common yardstick to assess builds because it’s the most consistent end game challenge we have.
For example, SR is too prone to RNG, and you can’t expect every build to kill celestials.
^So I’m afraid we’ll just have to disagree here.
It did if you take in account all content. You can cruise through main game with any skill converted to any type of dmg. But when it comes to strict endgame…
…I even couldn’t clear Crucible on my newest Venomblade remake. Not 4:40, not 6:00, not 12:00. 0:00! Not viable. Like 10% consistency. Even though the remake was relatively tankier than my previous versions (double Ravager’s Eye and everything, no Prismatic Diamond - all defense oriented components, etc). Only when I did pharma (Courageous T.) I could clear it with any decent consistency. And even then it required crazy piloting and spidey sense not to get one-shot all of a sudden.
Now, dervish itself doesn’t have much in terms of alternative defense (outside perma Ascension) but VB is (was?) a top tier set! If this can’t clear crucible by (no false modesty) a relatively decent pilot than what about all those hundreds other builds with limited defensive options?
Rocking the s**t out Darius C isn’t enough even for beginners who start planning for endgame. For people who want their builds to clear 170 someday and maybe also do some SR, diversity kinda… you know… was nerfed.