In this video of cadence with 100% wps, you can see most of the time cadence hits every other time. I am assuming this is due to dual wield (I’ll refer to as DW) mechanics that counts the cadence proc as also generating a charge, which means the next DW counts as another cadence charge, fulfilling the 2 charges needed for next cadence proc.
If the above is true, then I should expect to see cadence every 2 attacks, but sometimes I see it every 3. See here:
the example timestamp is at 1:17
Can anyone explain this? Is it potentially a bug?
because of cadence discharge “offhand” fast charging cadence
cadence itself only hits with 1h on the actual cadence hit, regardless of dual wield or not
what it then does is default to regular dual wield interaction, which is 50% chance dw hit 25%chance lefthand hit 25%chance right hand hit
so on those 50% occurence where you hit with both hands on the cadence discharge hit, but only 1 of those hands is the actual cadence hit, the other hand serves as a regular hit, thus grants a cadence charge.
Since this occur on the actual cadence hit it means you’re immediately getting an instant cadence charge on the discharge itself, so now you only need 1 more regular hit for the final chargeup.
I saw that thread before but I think it’s more complicated. I am using 100% wps, which means every hit is a 2 handed hit. You can see the cadence proc happening on the WPS proc. if this is the case, why does the cadence + WPS proc not also generate a charge every time like in my posted timestamp?
no, it’s not, that’s the point
100% wps does not guarantee a fast charge, it still defaults to basic dw behavior on the cadence discharge, you only have 100% dual hits on the non cadence hits and only 50% chance of dual hit on the Cadence discahrge “no matter what”
for the 3rd time
100% wps does not matter…
i dont’ mean to offend, but is there a language barrier here?
100% wps is irrelevant to the amount of hits required for cadence in 2 or 3 hits…
you could have 0 wps and Cadence would chage/discharge in the same amount of hits, 2-3, as long as you’re dual wielding melee
wps in terms of using both hands for attacks only factor in for the non-Cadence hit
for the actual cadence hit, regardless if you have 0 wps or 3000 wps, it will default to basic dual wield behavior, which is 50% both hands 25% left hand 25% right hand, and it is when it does the both hands attack you get a extra charge on the cadence discharge itself, ie roughly 50% of the time - melee wps does not alter this behavior
hit rating and wps % is not the same.
you are missing hits on the dummy, because you don’t have 100% hit chance, 100% wps does not automatically grant you 100% hit rating
*and you have wps animation overlaps you confuse for cadence hits/cadence cant’ discharge before the previous wps is done; Amrasta’s quick cut is counted as a single hit as far as cadence is concerned, despite hitting the dummy 3x
If this is true, could you explain what is happening on the WPS hits that also proc cadence? for example at 1:15. My confusion is that it looks like both hands hit (by execution wps). However, from what you are saying, internally the game registering 2 hits at only a 50% rate? If so, is there a way to confirm this? The post you linked earlier contradicted this information.
I’m not saying you are wrong, but I’ve seen many posts saying different info about cadence so I want to know definitively what the most up-to-date info is.
the post is saying what i’m saying
again, i think you might misunderstand or there is a translation mixup?
best example i can probably give is in your own video at 1.08-1.09 you can witness this very thing
you are making a Amarasta’s Quick cut chargeup at around 08, at 09, the very next swing you are discharging Cadence using only 1 hand, your right hand ← because it’s defaulting to the basic dw interaction despite your 100% wps, and again at 1.11 discharging Cadence using only left hand
again you have animation overlaps, making it very tricky for you to notice; it becomes much easier to see if you actually attack more slowly so you can pick out the individual animations
no I can be specific. The post you are linking says that with 100% wps, we can expect cadence to hit, then a wps attack, then another cadence. right here:
so at 1:22. there is a AQC with cadence proc, then AQC, then whirling death (no cadence but I expect it to proc here), then single hit cadence proc. In this rotation there is both a wps with cadence proc, and a cadence without wps.
no, it specifies that for ranged, and more so a specific type of ranged wps: Volley class - you’re melee, this doesn’t affect you at all
(also that wasn’t the actual post i linked it’s just the OP of the post i linked)
and that is totally normal melee dual wield behaviour, as i’ve said 3x
Besides, let me remember how DW Cadence works:
As known dual-wielding allow chance to hit with main hand, off-hand, or both. Same is true for Cadence discharge (I don’t use 3rd strike term due to the following). So, when you discharge Cadence with both hands, as known only one weapon deal full damage, but second one counts as basic attack and charge your next Cadence. Moreover such attack can prock WPS. Thus with enough of luck you will have Cadence discharge each 2 attack.
“Luck”, because it’s not a guarantee, it’s 50% chance for melee/non Volley class wps
But why is there a AQC with cadence proc followed by 2 WPS attacks without cadence? If there is an AQC procced cadence, then a WPS attack, I expect the next attack to proc cadence. Instead I sometimes see cadence, wps, wps, cadence
Also, if there is 100% wps, how can regular dual wield attacks occur?
because this is normal dw cadence behavior… i don’t know how many times i can repeat that? On the actual cadence hit you only have 50% chance to use both hands on dual wield, regardless of wps or how many wps you have
so when you don’t get the dual hand hit on cadence, you get the normal 2x chargeup
when you do get the dual hand hit, you get an instant charge/fast cadence charge “from the discharge offhand itself”, thus only need to hit 1 more time.
^this doesn’t matter if you have 0% wps, 100%wps or 3000%wps you default to basic dw behavior of 50/50 on the cadence hit itself
→
please try to follow this
(if we ignore the fast charge mechanic for a moment)
Cadence happen in 3 hits, 2 normal charge up hits and 3rd is cadence discharge hit
without wps normal dual wield mechanic, regardless of Cadence is 50/50, 50% chance you strike with both hands at same time, 50% chance you use 1h/25%left/25% right.
When you then use wps, to guarantee using both hands, this only factors in for the first 2 hits, the chargeup hits/non-Cadence hit/“the 2 normal attacks”
On the Cadence hit itself it will default back to regular dual wield behavior of 50/50, this is why you sometimes see it only hit Cadence with 1h/left hand or right hand, but other times will use both
^that hit can still trigger wps on the offhand, that’s what’s being talked about, dmg scaling, not dual hands strike guarantee (hence why i didn’t link the OP but Ceno’s post) - and when it then does the double hand Cadence hit, you get the extra charge because the other hand/offhand is still counted as a regular hit (and that’s the hit that’s wps dmg)
makes sense? otherwise let me know if i need to try explain it better
Thanks for explaining that. I still have some confusion on the cadence discharge.
What I understand is there are these scenarios during a cadence discharge if 100% wps:
50% chance left or right hand hits
50% chance both hands. This is the one I still don’t understand. If the main hand hits with cadence and I have 100% wps, shouldn’t the offhand be wps every time? Why does it sometimes show a regular dw attack like at 0:36 - 0:37?
If there is 100% wps I expect to never see a regular non-wps DW attack.
again, for the 5th time, please try to follow this part
100% dual hand ONLY factors in for the 2 normal attacks, it has 0 relevance for the 3rd hit/cadene hit itself
because the Cadence hit defaults to basic dual wield mechanic “no matter if you have 0 wps 100% wps or 3000% wps”…
I don’t know how to make that more clear?
your wps amount does not impact the dual hand chance for 3rd hit, ever, because Cadence uses default/basic dual wield behavior on the cadence hit
so 50% of the time you get a wps “on the cadence hit”, 50% you don’t because then cadence only strikes with 1h “no matter how many wps you have”
I’m talking about the 50% wps on cadence hit, not the 50% one with 1h. There can only two types of hits, 1h and WPS during a cadence discharge. If so, why is there a regular dw hit at all? How can this happen?
By regular dw I mean what you see at 0:36 - 37? Am I incorrect at recognizing this to be a dw hit and not wps??
you misunderstand
if we totally ignore wps/0 points in wps
and you have melee dual wield, and attack, 50% of the time you will fast charge cadence, because you strike with both hands on the Cadence hit
When you add in WPS the above does not change, what changes is the 50% of the times you strike with both hands on Cadence hit is now a wps dmg scaled hit
0 wps scenario
we Attack 3x, first 2 is normal, 3rd is cadence single hand
we attack 3x again, first 2 is normal, 3rd is cadence dual hand: we now have a fast charge, but only 1 hand dealt cadence dmg the other hand dealt regular auto attack dmg
100% wps scenario
we attack 3, first 2 is wps, 3rd is cadence single hand
we attack 3x again, first 2 is wps, 3rd is cadence dual hand: we now have a fast charge, but only 1 hand dealt cadence dmg, the other hand dealt wps dmg
the fast charging is irrelevant to the wps itself, it only matters for dmg scaling, you would get fast charging 50% of the time with 0 wps, and you still only get fast charging 50% of the time with wps, difference is just you deal wps dmg now too those 50% where Cadence dual hits
Cadence discharge hit using both hands from what i can tell (after amarasta’s quick cut)
into belgo shears wps that seem to miss, and execution hits after giving the final cadence charge
remember you don’t see WPS animation when it happens because Cadence animation can just override the wps animation on the Cadence hit itself
i don’t know what the deciding factor is there, i think ex AQC doing 3 strikes/is long means it will often just flow into cadence “mid swing” if you will.
like i said earlier, the biggest issue you have going on here is actually speed, because it makes it much harder for you to distinguish the strikes from eachother and the hand animations
*Cadence looks way different from the other wps/just regular bonk animation
a good way to check this out is
100% hit chance (legit unsure if you had that in this test since seems like some attacks missed once in a while on appearance atleast)
but don’t just hold down the attack button, make individual attacks each time/single clicks, that way the wps animations and Cadence should become more pronounced, but still have the fast charge (cadence buff lasts a while so not like it will interfere holding off attack for half a second before next swing)
then do this with 0 wps and with 100% wps, and you should see the fast charge also happening without wps present/when Cadence does the dual hand discharge
*and without wps present the Cadence dual hand attack becomes very noticeable
