Picture of ZT description when dual wielding melee weapons:
Picture of ZT description when dual wielding ranged weapons:
So as you can see when dual wielding ranged weapons it shows that ZT hits with both hands. I did some testing and it hits only with one imo, but Im not 100% sure. So question is: Is it meant to hit with both hands when using ranged weapons or its a bug? If its meant to hit with bot hands when DW ranged weapons, does it do it?
Thx in andvance 
All I know from old posts, and i could be very wrong, is that MA nad ZT can proc off either gun but not both at a time.
The good part being that 2 guns increase chance to proc esentially.
Yea, but does it hit with both when procs, judging from description it should?
P.S. Dual wielding guns is so underdeveloped comparing to 2H ranged :undecided:
Lul what? No…
Unfortunately yes
DW ranged BM
2H ranged BM
Dummy kill times 2H ranged 42 sec, DW ranged 53 sec.
And DW ranged one uses manticore devotions so effectively has 10 rr more.
Tried also with pyro, sorcerer and commando. 2H ranged variation seams always better.
For dummy purpose have you tried pyroclasm mark to put oleron relic?
Also maybe one havoc?
You meant belgothian or oleron? Dont know why would I use oleron? Belgothians procs works only if you are dw melee weapons.
Tried with pyroclasm, MA belt, emp guns jacket, belgothians relic, havoc in one hand,… this setup gave best results.
Oleron’s Wrath relic. Flat damage and +1 deadly momentum potentially +2
Its a pierce dmg build, tho with not so effective conversion cuz its impossible for ranged build to have high to pierce conversion. Belgothians gives flat pierce, much better than flat phys in this case, and +1 to night chill, that’s better than +1 to DM
It is a pierce build but since you use cadence and have low pierce ratio you do have loads of phys damage anyway. Why not use that more? Like put a black matriarch ring and see how it is. Same for Oleron’s but yes you do lose 1 night’s chill
Yes, but building it more to phys dmg than it must be is even worse imo.
When going pierce you can stack flat pierce dmg from other sources and increase pierce dmg.
When going phys every flat dmg you stack will suffer to pierce conversion, and you will not have nights chill -% rr.
When going something in between is worst, I could equip BM ring but I would lose flat pierce dmg from one ring and that flat dmg when applied trough nights chill (-30 something %pierce rr) is much more effective than what would gain from additional -15% phys, but will try it.
Maybe you just like 2-handers more Personally, using 2 Havoc (for Cadence) or 2 Deviltongue (for Firestrike) really pleases me.
It’s funny actually that you feel dual wielding gun is underdeveloped, considering how eveybody complained for months about 2H being under performing!
On contrary I started playing GD cuz I wanted to dual wield guns in RPG
Im not talking from personal preferences pow, I compared different variations of DW and 2H ranged builds and always 2H variation turned to be, more or less, better.
But generally ranged building is underdoged hard in GD. Ie you can make top tier melee WH and top tier caster WH but can you make ranged WH? Is there any auto atc replacer from component that works for ranged? There is only one ranged weapon without to pierce conversion (Vortex of souls), only one that is not phys dmg (Vortex again), so many skills that are melee/casters exclusive but not single one ranged exclusive (talking about skills from classes, not items)…I could go on like this for long 
Fair enough
Vortex of souls does stand out with that indeed. But pierce ratio shouldn’t affect damage on rifles with other element conversion since pierce ratio is the last to be appllied.
It’s really that pierce it has that makes it ridiculous. In my opinion that should be nerfed to a 70% chance to pass through. Even the Hunter in titan Quest had % to pass through bellow 100% even with lots of skills. Fighting form needs 12 skills to get that. It’s just too much bonus in one item
Of course… cadence is terrible for dual weapons… (due to underlying mechanics of the 3rd shot actually only using the main hand despite the description showing two hands–and I’m going to go out on a limb and say that this is probably also the case here with ZT, and that you are capped in gaining one cadence charge per 0.5 seconds hence the quick double shots from two guns only gains one charge). With fire strike however (since the base fire damage, not to mention brimstone is doubled), dual guns will win hands down over two-handed gun.
Tried with BM ring and oleron, its not even close, but with using BM ring only instead of Cronley one, dummy kill time comes close but is still higher probably due to lose of dps and OA.
P.S. Btw Im noob, made tremendous error when measuring dummy kill times, they are much lower now
Yeah, and it’s only 100% chance on the third hit.
I have to disagree. Cadence is great for dual pistols. Yes it deals less damage per attack due to the large %Weapon damage component, but don’t forget all the flat damage you get for other sources.
Dual wielding Havoc I have 18/12 Deadly Momentum at level 50 (and more later with proper gear), and this buff represents 140-200 Physical damage or 2.5x times the damage for a Havoc.
Rifles deal 3x as much damage as pistols but they attack more slowly. (I generalize here, actually I look at the damage values from Valdun’s and Havoc.) They don’t allow you to have as many points in DM as guns.
Add to that Havoc’s crazy proc that makes you shoot at 200%AS (193% because of a bug) and honestly the screen melts.
I will just say Kraken, it does wonders for 2H.
2x Death dealer sidearms is slightly faster on dummy than 1x havoc and 1x death dealer sidearm at least on this setup (probably due to higher AP value on DDSA).
Looks good, I’ll keep an eye out for the build guide ^^
Any chance you can post stats screenshots of the green items you are using?
Thx