Can you spin the Theorycrafting-Hamster Wheel of Hype so hard that we break FG before it even releases?
Show me what you’ve got!
PS: of course, there have already been attempts to theorycraft THE SPIN [insert epic voice], so please also check out Saw’s physical EoR Warlord as well as all the others in this forum. This thread, however, is meant to focus all of our efforts to create the ultimate Wreckoning TM, whatever its form may be. In the end, aren’t we all just brothers and sisters in spinage? [insert pile of slimy green vegetable here]
Below you will find my own first attempts at creating endgame viable EoR-builds.
Note: all of the following builds were assembled with the new SR in mind; I therefore tried to amass both decent secondary resist as well as some overcap on the primary ones (with mediocre success, I have to confess – but nonetheless. I tried.)
First: the obvious. The Cyclone set.
1. Lightning-focused Archon
loosely based on John_Smith’s “Master of Winds” Vindicator.
Greens used are only ones that I actually possess. Concept: maximum SPIN. Maxed out EoR & Wind Devils ftw. Cinderwind for giggles. Issues: a. OA&DA. This is actually a problem with all of my current Cyclone builds, as the set itself has almost no OA/DA built in. Tenacity of the boar helps only to some degree. b. Attack speed & cast speed. I Found no way to max these (-> Cindertouch has neither).
A partial fix for these issues might be a better MI ring (e.g. a ‘Light Bringer’s Cronley’s Signet of Readiness’). However, any further help on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Comments on items & skill choices a. Scepter because of RR. Chest, pants, belt & amulet for + to skills. If any of you manage to squeeze some more OA, DA, AS or CS into these slots without sacrificing too many points on the primary skills, please let me know.
Also: Eye of the Storm relic for -energy cost. If the OA stays this low, I might even go for Primal instinct though… b. Ascension. I am not sure how good this skill will actually turn out to be; thus, only a 1-pointer for now. What do you think how good it is? Might it even be necessary for survival in the SR? c. Constellations: here I focused on getting max RR & decent defences. I am especially uncertain about Obelisk. Should I maybe try to instead get more OA somewhere else?
2. Fire-focused Shieldbreaker Concept: All fire, all procs. Maxed out Thermite Mines in hopes of a buff in 1.1. I mean, seriously, those have been terrible for way too long.
This time, the greens used are ones that I only wish i had. Just look at that amulet! So beautiful! ;( Issues: a. OA&DA. as mentioned above. b. Possibly Energy regen. Might have to be fixed with constellations (harp etc.). Comments on items & skill choices
MI pants & amulet for a combination of resists & OA/DA. A no-MI-version might be possible, too; but I really wanted to fix issue a. Not that it actually worked, mind you… b. Justiciar Guard Chest & Gloves for the 2piece bonus, as well as DA, AS & CS. Eternal Pyre ring might have to be replaced by something that fixes OA/DA. The newly buffed Fire and Ice ring, for example, looks very appealing… c. Constellations: RR & procs. d. Skill I am uncertain about: Judgement. In use because of Justiciar-modifiers and because the DA shred looked great due to issue a.
But how does it actually work? I Know it utilizes knockback; but how does the debuff work? Does it apply to all enemies? Or do they have to be knocked back? Please don’t be another OFF…
For me, the biggest challenge with EoR is the low number of % weapon damage bonuses available. Considering EoR has 20% weapon damage base and hits 5 times per second before attack speed, an increase in % weapon damage is the # 1 way to increase damage.
The highest available bonus is the Cyclone set + Kymon’s Sanctified Blade for 26%.
I was really hoping for a 2h Lightning build being available, since it would naturally stack well with Brute Force. In theory you can run Mythical Ultos’ set and Cindertouch and get close to 100% lightning damage on all parts of your EoR. The problem, then, is that your RR from Wind Devil becomes less usable than with the Cyclone set, and your % weapon damage ratio becomes garbage, meaning you don’t put all that juicy flat lightning damage to use.
Is this true? I am still mathing it out and there are some serious assumptions but here is something to consider. Dual wield a pair of these https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9297 for 20% retaliation to EoR instead. If that applies to each hit 100K of retaliation becomes 20K flat damage per hit (and I have gotten retal numbers closer to 300K in some retal builds… but those all have block retal procs so who knows what numbers are possible dual wielding). Can 27% weapon damage equal that when multiplied out by whatever gear you equip?
Further more if Retribution works like I think it does you can get another 8-12% as long as you stop spinning to Righteous Fervor once every 2 seconds to renew the stack buff.
But is % weapon damage really the best way to increase the damage of EoR? I have to admit that I treated it mostly like an untransmuted Callidor’s Tempest (c.f. x1x2’s Spellbinder) that relies mostly on its flat damage components. In this light, a caster Off-Hand seems actually more appealing to me than a 2-hander, even though brute force does look very juicy…
The biggest problem that comes with the low % weapon damage is rather, in my eyes, AdctH, as the 56% WD of EoR might not provide enough life leech. However, both builds posted above also include devotion skills with %WD like Hand of Ultos or Flame torrent (not to mention those Savagery hits the lightning build has to get in from time to time) to help with this problem.
If you want a 2-handed EoR build, though, this new weapon seems pretty bonkers to me…
To clarify, my truth question has absolutely nothing to do with weapon damage values on the base skill itself. The question is if through skill mods an extra 27% weapon damage from items is > than 20% added retaliation damage added to hit from items.
The base 20-40% EOR weapon damage depending on skill investment isn’t going anywhere.
@Lind To be brutally honest, I am very uncertain about the actual math behind EoR myself; malawiglenn even mentioned here that the %WD of EoR might actually be split between main- and off-hand (e.g. a shield or 2nd 1-handed weapon).
How strong a phys./acid Spin2win build with 1-2 Agony maces utilizing %retal dmg will be might be something that we can’t even guess/evaluate in any reasonable capacity before FG hits, as the %retal dmg mechanic is completeley new to us…
Well going down the rabbit hole of believing that each tick of EoR will apply a full 20% retaliation damage here is a rough build that has between 120K-214K retaliation from lowest retal numbers no procs up to highest retal numbers all procs up. Or 24K-42K retaliation damage added to each tick beyond the base skill values for a 22/26 EoR. All at an attack speed of 150% which should be at least 7 ticks a second. Grabbing all those retal devotions made him quite the tank as well.
On the downside not much in the way of flashy layered devotion procs or stacked RR resist. But if this works like I think it will that may not matter with that much retaliation damage added to each tick.
I think Cyclone warrants a much higher focus on lightning damage. For comparison, here is a variation of what I posted in the general FG theory-crafting thread: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/4NOWGYaN
Something to note is that we don’t know how well EoR scales with attack speed (do we?); it could be that, somewhere past 150%, chasing IAS bonuses becomes counter-productive.
Definitely swap out one of those rings for a Mythical Entropic Coil.
Edit: Though you are using Flame Torrent, which might make Voidheart’s fire to chaos conversion more appealing. Hmm. Well, maybe give it a try nonetheless, see which ring you prefer.
Have you considered a Conduit of Divine Whispers to fight this build’s absolute lack of -%Chaos RR? And maybe some Valdaran’s Shoulderguards to supermax EoR? Something like this? Unfortunately, that particular setup is now a bit low on DA, but you might be able squeeze some more out of the build via your medal or you boot slot (either with flat DA or by getting higher resists, which in turn might allow you to use a few of these awesome new augments).
Damn, that build looks cool.
@spikenik Also, you can convert the full 100% of EoR’s fire damage to chaos using 2 Voidhearts
@Pareto Yeah, I thought about the new Stormfire Seal too, in case petrify resist should become more relevant in FG/SR (and considering the amout of +%petrify resist on the new items, it might very well be)
Regarding the importance of IAS: In the FG theorycrafting thread, Superfluff actually mentioned that a big part of the overall EoR damage comes from its ability to proc stuff like crazy, thus making the dmg per second of the main skill less important… Since the energy cost of EoR seems to be quite manageble, however, I really see no reason why IAS should not remain a very relevant stat to increase its damage
-Edit. I misread what the relic did. Previous question withdrawn-
I haven’t fleshed this out yet but here are the bare bones of a Whirling Dervish which converts all that spinning elemental damage into pierce, is flanked by spinning blades, summons spinning sands with a new relic, and only stops spinning to spin a different way with a tricked out Ring of Steel.
