Dark & Stormy

Is the weather system completely random/dynamic? Will there be different variations in storm intensity?

We have a new dynamic weather system now that allows us to create custom “climates” for each area. In the climate file we can set which weather systems it can use and what the chance is of each particular one occurring over a given period. In the weather system files we can set intensity ranges for each effect.

I notice the player pops from the screen a lot more then some of the earlier screenshots, he looks “illustrious.” Which I think is a pretty good way to set a character apart from the background in this kind of game.

We have added a “light rig” to the character so that they always have a little extra illumination over the environment. After listening to people’s feedback about the screenshots and also wanting to see the character better lit, we initially tried just increasing the brightness of characters but that made them look flat. When the game is in motion, I didn’t find there was any trouble discerning the character from the scenery but I think these “beauty lights” better define the character’s features and I think seeing them “pop” a bit more from the darker terrain is visually pleasing. In TQ since the outdoor world was so bright and the terrain usually much lighter than the character, this just naturally worked out most of the time. With darker ground textures, I think going lighter with the character makes sense.

freaking amazing bump maps on the ground

We’re putting real normal maps on terrain now as opposed to the black and white bump-maps used in TQ and I think it makes a HUGE difference for some textures.

I cannot wait to see what kind of colorburst you surprise us with, I mean seriously can all this gloom be all there is, or is there some contrast planned with other regions/areas where the gloom has lifted?

I think even in the current swamp, ruined village, and farm environments there is plenty of color when you’re playing the game. At least, I don’t feel like it is drab and monotonous in the way that parts of Fallout 3 and Guildwars (starting area after the “searing”) were, where everything was gray. The farm area is actually rather bright but the screenshot posted is at sunset. We will probably add additional details to each environment that may include little patches of color - like the swamp probably needs a little purple loostrife, my favorite invasive plant species. ; p

However, I don’t think any of the environments will be quite as bright and filled with color as the sunniest, most flower-packed grasslands of TQ. That just isn’t the vibe we’re going for and, while I find that visually attractive, I always felt like it really diminished the sense of danger and intensity in TQ.

I like the screenshot but I have to ask: are the torches (and similar light emitting objects throughout the game) gonna emit shadows or is that not being implemented due to the taxing engine on lower-end machines?

I think that single aspect is what throws it all off for me. I remember TQs lights casting several shadows off my character, it was always a beauty to behold. I sincerely hope that still has a chance of making it into the final game.

Hah, actually there should be shadows since we’ve implemented a new system that will allow us to use shadow-casting lights a little more freely in the levels. In the new system we can set a “shadow priority” for different lights based on how important they to the scene and then depending on your video settings shadows will be turned off on various lights based on the shadow priority of the light. This just went in a few days ago and, to be honest, I don’t even notice that there are no dynamic shadows when I’m playing, so I just forgot to set it. Thanks for the reminder! :o

That said, the reality is, casting accurate, dynamic shadows is still quite performance intensive even for expensive commercial engines such as Unreal 3. I wish this weren’t the case because I fully realize how cool they look but computer hardware hasn’t really advanced that much in this regard since TQ came out. So, you’ll see more shadow-casting lights than were used in TQ and I guess with the new system we might set it up so that on ultra-high setting you can enable shadow casting for all lights but I don’t many people would be able to run this. For most computers it will just be the most prominent lights in a given scene that cast shadows. I think beyond that, there is a diminishing return for how noticeable the effect is vs. the performance loss.

Not sure what part of TQ you’re thinking of though since there aren’t really very many shadow casting lights in most areas. If you load up the game and run around various towns you’ll notice that most of the fire particle effects (torches, braziers, campfires, etc) do not cast shadows. I just checked to make sure of this and none of the torches I ran past in Helios, Sparta, or Megara cast shadows. There were a couple that did in Athens and Delphi but most of the torches / braziers were not shadow casting. There was actually a point late in the development of TQ where the level designers had to go back and remove most of the shadow-casting lights from the levels. I think most of the ones left are there by accident.

Undergrounds, however, usually have simpler scenery that is less taxing on performance, so you may see them used in that setting more frequently.

Given that the #1 complaint we got about TQ:IT was poor performance, I think you can understand why we might be a little cautious here. We aren’t saving ourselves any trouble here by being conservative with shadows, it is actually very tempting to go nuts with the lighting and effects but we’re trying to exercise some self-restraint so that you guys will can enjoy good performance.

I was actually thinking about some less taxing workarounds after I posted this. Granted, it’s hard to tell how they actually feel to a player not being able to test it, but what about this: the nearer objects are to low-priority lights, the less (or maybe more) intense the shadows are for those objects. Since there would be only one shadow (from the main light source) it would fake what TQ had with lights where the main shadow would be dimmer while the shadows cast from the low priority light source would get more pronounced. Here we’d just be missing the pronounced shadows; possibly even having a simple gradient circle shadow get more pronounced underneath the character as he gets closer to a light source.

Also, I’m not sure I agree with with having an ultra-high setting for people with high performance PCs. Mainly because if you build the game from the ground up knowing full well some lights won’t cast real shadows regardless of settings you could fake static shadows with ambient occlusion and specular maps on the terrain. For example, in this screenshot the torches would normally cast a shadow pattern on the ground akin to the torch… grate thing… which could possibly be faked with ambient occlusion and a specular map. I’m not sure it’d work properly as I don’t know how the engine perceives specular maps but I’d venture it’s worth a shot at testing if you guys have some free time. Also, at the base of the torch pillar you could simply have a simple gradient circle shadow right underneath and exclude the torch pillar from casting other shadows.

Other than that it’s good to hear about higher priority lights casting static shadows, it certainly creates a realistic visual impression without being too demanding on a machine.

Ambient occlusion isn’t really a good substitute for casting directional shadows from specific light sources. In terms of what you’re talking with well-defined shadows cast on the ground by the tall torches, ambient occlusion would do almost nothing. If we’re talking about static shadows, that could be accomplished better with baked lighting. Although the day-night cycle could make this a little problematic. Baked lights usually work best in environments with fixed lighting. Of course, I’m a designer, so I’m not really an expert on lighting tech.

Other than that it’s good to hear about higher priority lights casting static shadows, it certainly creates a realistic visual impression without being too demanding on a machine.

Well, we’re talking about dynamic shadows here, not static. Creating static shadows wouldn’t be a performance issue but, again, the day-night cycle could be an issue. Another possibility is the new technique of “deferred lighting”, which we’ve talked about. Any of these things would require some significant engine work though, so it seems unlikely. Maybe something that could be upgraded down the road.

Anyway, if you think TQ has good shadows, then this seems like a non-issue as things should be at least as good if not better in GD based on what we’re planning. The screenshot only lacks shadows cast by the torches because a new setting was implemented a few days ago and I forgot to turn it on. :o

Hi there, am following your project since the beginning, new Screenshot looks absolutely great.

Just wanted to point out that I find it a pleasure to find regulary new Screenshots in your media section, you can really see the title evolve :slight_smile:

I for myself played some Gothic 1 & 2 (european RPG) some time ago, and through it, I remembered a feature where it was stated that in grim dawn, you will encounter several regions with enemies which will be to hard for you at the time of your first visit but of course you can re-encounter them later.

Just wanted to ask how that’s coming along, I for myself think that linearity in hack’n’slays was a problem since the beginning and that such features which simulates elements of an open-world would be perfectly suited for this kind of games.

Keep up the great work, you’re doing mighty fine.
Deathrattle