I think so too with my builds but than again I don’t post them 
All of my build are 4.5 
, that’s why I don’t want to post it here (I would be very ashamed)
Speaking of your builds I rearranged your no attack spelbreaker, it can take down whole content (IM and MQ included) average fabius kill time is 55 secs, so its definitely more than 4,5
http://www.grimtools.com/calc/wV16MYZD
Everything except MQ is facetenkable and point in SS is just cuz Im to lazy to walk all the way 
Some people don’t have the time or ability to design their own builds.
I for one, would never make it to ultimate without the help of these guides.
So thank you to those of you who spend the time to help out us less fortunate ones.
Other people have largely covered this, but also Grim Dawn doesn’t have so many possible builds that you’re likely to come up with anything that someone else hasn’t already done. And if that’s the case, you might as well check and see if the people who’ve already done it have any advice before you sink 20 hours into something only to find out it doesn’t work.
Of course a lot of this could be avoided if you could respec easily and at low/no cost, but something tells me you wouldn’t like that solution either.
This is a valid point, but I’m hoping that if forum members adopt a tier list like this, new guide posters will follow the example of veterans. The tier list I’ve created is fortunately very easy to utilize with a build; “did I beat the game? Yes. Did I die a lot? Yes. Can I beat some of the extra end game content? Yes. Can I beat all of it? No. Tier 3.5 it is.” Or…“Have I ever beaten Aspirant Crucible? Yes, all the time without problems. Have I ever beaten Challenger Crucible? Yeah, I do about half the time. My build must be tier 2.5”. Obviously someone can lie about their tier, which should be frowned upon and hopefully expert forum members can call out bullshit like this when they see it. “You say your build is tier 2 yet your highest resist is 50%? Hell no.”
I like your idea as well and would make the tier system more honest. But you raise an interesting point, are any builds not tier 1 worth anyone’s time?
I’d answer absolutely. If all I want is to clear all the game has to offer, I only need a build to be tier 3 or above. What if I want a build using a specific set of items, and it isn’t represented by tier 1 or 2? I’d be happy with tier 3. Chthon’s builds are a perfect example of this; most aren’t tier 1 but they’re really frickin’ cool ideas that are worth trying out. Discussions like this can happen more frequently and hopefully more people can get the idea that just because a build isn’t tier 1 doesn’t make it bad, or worthless. Ideally, the tier of a build doesn’t become its defining feature, but more just a side point. “Hmm, this build uses X and it’s tier 1, but I want to use Y skill with Z type of damage. This build though has everything I’m looking for! Looks like it’s tier 2.5. That’s fine, I don’t need to be a speed demon if I’m doing Y/Z/whatever.”
For the record, a lot of you are already using my tier list to make points in your posts and it probably saves a lot of time and makes it easier, yes?
This is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. This is such a cool idea, I never would have thought this was possible, let alone attempt to make it, and it’s AT LEAST tier 3 (maybe even tier 2). It would definitely be a worthwhile addition to the compendium if a guide was made on it.
Maelstrom 3.0 perhaps? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
But wouldn’t your clear labeling go against this very idea? Let’s say that build is Tier 3, how many people would go like “nah, this is crap, I’ll look for T1-2 builds.”?
Also, to be actually accurate, build posters would need to revisit their builds each patch to assess the current rating and adjust it if need be (more than commenting “still works fine after patch”).
And don’t forget different playstyles or “ways of playing”. What might be a T2 build for you may well be a T3,5 for me because I don’t quite play it “right”.
Your idea is not a bad one, but I just don’t see all those build posters as such a homogeneous group for this to be feasible.
If posters present their builds both well and in detail, you can judge its performance by description and/or video footage.
I think it’s better to just rate each mastery individually and a couple recommended set of skills to focus on depending on playstyle.
Almost every build I’ve seen requires a set of legendary 75s which is not obtainable without devoting your life to this game or hacking the gear in. I’ve spent the good part of the last 3 days farming vanilla with a friend and have only found a couple of pieces for my build. So unless Crucible is the only way to get gear, I don’t really understand the point of build guides on this forums.
I also find it annoying to hear people say certain things are bad strictly because they can’t make a reliable solo Gladiator Crucible 100-150 build for it. As far as I’m concerned Druid is loads better than BWC Sorcerer.
Problem is that some people are able to make tier 4.5 builds with full legendary/epic gear and some make good builds with low gear dependency …
(and you still have the trading option if you don’t have the time/the wish to farm the purple items you need)
I don’t see much of a difference between hacked gear and trading. You have no idea where the gear came from and this is mostly a solo game as is. Loot sharing in a game or with a friend is fine, though.
What you propose is utterly pointless. There is no objective set of criteria to judge individual masteries by. And there’s much more to a build than just the mastery setup.
There’s a large number of builds that work without specific legendaries, but yeah the versions that are posted are usually gonna contain BiS items because there’s little point posting unoptimised builds. Doesn’t mean that most of them won’t work without all the specific gear.
Sure some builds are built around mandatory items, but there’s not that many of them. Not to mention that the some people post awful builds requiring crazy gear while others post strong builds that can be played self found. The build compendium is full enough of evidence that good gear does not a good build make.
The fact that for you gear dependence is synonymous with purple gear is also proof that you don’t know much about what you’re talking about. Purples can be farmed and traded for quite efficiently even without crucible. It’s builds that use loads of green items that often contain cheated items.
Now, even efficient farming will take many hours to yield the items you want. This is par for the course in an ARPG however, so if you don’t like that the whole genre is not for you.
I also don’t see too many people call things bad because of a perceived lack of Gladiator performance. As others have already said, Crucible has a different meta and few builds do it efficiently. Now it’s perfectly reasonable IMO to call a build bad if it can’t handle the post-game Vanilla content, Mogdrogen excluded as it is more of a puzzle boss.
You think Druid is so great ? That’s fine, but that doesn’t make it true. Have you even played BWC Sorcerer ? Why don’t you post us a GT link to your Druid so we can see for ourselves.
I’ll keep my tier 5 and tier 6 builds, because I have tier 1 of fun with them. Me having fun playing is way more important then how fast something clears.
Or how strong it is considered.
3 days isn’t nearly enough time to get anything, and no hacking and farming aren’t the only way to go. Trading is a way and believe it or not people aren’t as big an asshole as they appear to be and give actually legit gear (shocking isn’t it?:rolleyes:). If anything my first steps to get integrated into the community were through trading so i have great trust in the trading section and the people in it
And checking for hacks is easy imo, i usually open item db to cross reference the stats. And i’ve played enough that I am now able to memorize almost all the deviations
Build guides on the forum exist to show you the min/maxing of stats to achieve optimum performance and show you how to create builds that normally one wouldn’t consider
Build guides use end game items to show the max potential and besides Conversion builds and Item skill builds I have yet to see a build that is highly gear dependent
I also find it annoying to hear people say certain things are bad strictly because they can’t make a reliable solo Gladiator Crucible 100-150 build for it.
Agreed this part annoys me as much as the question “is this viable yet?”
If you mean you prefer Druid then I respect your opinion but that is provided you have played BWC Sorc.
But if you’re implying Druid is anywhere near Tier - 1 then
I still like my TSS Druid 
(I’m sure it’s tier 1 !)
Why I don’t post builds anymore, summarized in one quote.
I have 3000 hours on PoE, over 2000 on D3, and quite a bit on other ARPGs like D1 and D2. I barely touched TQ, though, so my experience with Crate’s implementation is limited. I only have 140 hours on this game, so yes by comparison I haven’t done much farming but it’s a lot more than most people will ever do when playing this game.
I couldn’t post links earlier due to hidden bot filtering rules or I would have asked for help instead of ranting and hijacking threads.
Here’s my experience with the game so far. I leveled a full cunning Blademaster when this game on sale before devotions came out. The character sucked obviously because it was extremely squishy (full cunning is bad) and too gear dependent of a build to skip to ultimate. I chose this because of Kripp’s video. My friend got the game within the last few months so I finished playing my BM to endgame with his Druid. Wind Devils and Storm totem basically destroys all Ultimate content in the game. Wind Devils with Tempest devotion has been the best reliable damage output I’ve seen so far. Even if my BM did fair damage, I was unable to tank any hard content on Ultimate.
Eventually we rerolled so I could actually play at endgame. He made a retaliate Warder and I played a dual pistol Fire Strike sorcerer. My sorc did about as much damage as him and was very squishy comparatively. Eventually he got bored of the retaliate build and went back to the Druid and plvled me to endgame. I rerolled to BWC at this point and have been extremely disappointed in my damage output in comparison to his. I may be a tad more tanky than him but I it takes me ages to kill bosses, especially when I have to kite around.
We’ve spent the last 3 days farming nemesis and the dungeons in hopes of making the build perform better. So far the best farming has been Elite Fabius and BoC. We’ve recently tried Zantarin (Death’s Vigil) and Ultimate Cronly/Hive. Now we’re debating rerolling for a third and probably final time. This time I’m considering an Occultist build since it’s the only mastery I haven’t played.
My Builds:
-
Deathmarked Blademaster
2a. Mad Sorc (Dual Pistols) (leveling)
2b. BWC Sorc (old)
2c. BWC Sorc (new) - Light’s Defender Elementalist (currently level 45, but I’m tired of soloing)
- DEE Witchblade (build I’m considering next)
I could post my current gear but that would just end in more unrelated hijacking of the thread. I may post it later for help if the occultist doesn’t work out.
Friend’s Builds
- Pokemon master
- Druid ??
- Retaliation Warder (currently 45)
- Blademaster ?? (he gave up on it since it wasn’t faceroll like his other builds)
- (cold build next?)
Well Druid isn’t Tier 1
I respect unique builds but unique and tier 1 aren’t in the same ballpark
at least tier 1 in terms of fun for me though. the non stop barrage of blue icy meteors is quite a sight to behold… and with timing I am able to facetank iron maiden with her so all is good :rolleyes:
edit- i must admit that the class combo could use some more synergy… wind devil is donkey crap… but at least druids can be viable maybe not top tier in crucible though I have not really tried