Just a question I have regarding skills that take both hands into account to calculate their damage, like this one for example:
Are the damage values added together first, then applied… or are they applied separately ?
This might seem like it’s irrelevant, and in most cases it is, but when trying to apply DoT, if they are applied separately, they would not stack… the game would just take the better value.
I’ve been testing some builds out lately, and even though on paper, the dual-wield setup was supposed to be better, the 2-handed alternative was more powerful by a noticeable margin.
So… is dual-wield fundamentally gimped to applying DoT ?
WD is wd, you get 1 source, highest applies
Difference on dualwield is that as usual some flats can be hand specific, which for dots then mean if you have flat bleed direct on a weap (not global bleed applied via wd), that hand specific dot has to be applied via that hand’s attack.
Non dual wield easy example could be trauma builds with flat trauma on mace and shield like Grey Knight or octav? you have to hit with shield, like smash/FW to apply that left hand dot, but it wont count the dot on your mace then, you need a main hand slam for that to combine (blitz/smite then super ideal as it strikes with both at same time)
if the skill has native dot, it also wont give you 2x the native dot from doing dw, it’s still counted as that skill’s source so you get 1.
This becomes super noticeable on dualwielding Stormrends where PS tooltip and dps estimate bloats massively, but dot on dummy is the same with you hit with 1h or both
Is it per damage type? So if I do 10k lightning dot on my left hand and 10k cold dot on my right hand do I get a total 20k dot? And if I do 10k lightning + 5k cold left and 10k cold + 5k lightning on my right, do I still get 20k total dot?
Does that mean you get the damage from both weapons added together?
you need to strike with whatever hand that weapon is in, to get that dot applied, if you’re then dualwielding, you need to use attacks that still hits with left hand to get left hand hand specific dot applied
but you don’t get ex global bleed on a ring x2 like you would would flat pierce on a ring
Ok. I guess I’m wondering if the weapon specific dot applies separately. For example if you perform normal dual wield attacks, it goes left, right, left, right etc. (And sometimes both?)
And I’m wondering if one hand can override the other hand’s dot attack if it turns out to be higher, or if the weapon specific dots just add up from the separate hands, or if that’s only the case when they hit at the same time. (I guess I can try to check later)
gets added regardless of application order as i recall, what matters is scaling
Since hand specific flats/dots are still scaled by %wd amount, if you’re just default AA’ing you get 100% scaled dot on the left hand only, but if you use ex shadowstrike you get 450?%
The biggest issue for DW dot is just that you don’t get dots twice, so you dont’ actually get the sheet listed dot 2x, you only get 1 + the merger of hand specific dot, and even if the attack has native dot, primal strike bleed, SS poison/frostburn you still only get it 1x even if you hit with both weapons on the skill attack; but tooltips will display otherwise and lie to you
Ok, I don’t have dpyes installed, but I just tested cadence with korvan wyrm and the transmuter and I get trauma on the normal hits and then all three elements on the cadence hit. And they can tick both at the same time on the same target. So I’m guessing weapon damage from different sources does stack if they have different damage types???
edit. unsure if it’s as simple as different dmg types vs WD source, or it’s the “old” cadence dot exploit that never got 100% fixed but suppose testing with two direct attack skills with different conversions could reveal it
Are you saying that WD% dot only gets applied once… unless the DoT is a different damage type ?
Like… say I have massive flat frostburn damage, I could apply it with ring of steel… and then, use shadow strike with the conduit that converts all cold to lightning… I could apply the same flat DoT using WD%… but since this time it’s electrocute… it would stack ?
If I understood correctly, dual damage type builds, and elemental builds are about to be looked into a bit more seriously
What if you had a weapon that changed the SAME skill to something else on swap ?
Like… you hit with shadow strike and apply a bunch of frostburn damage… then swap to your second weapon set that includes a weapon that converts all cold to vitality … and you hit with shadow strike again… would THAT stack ?
not only does it work, it works with skill’s native dot too
tested used boneharvest and the cold vs vit conversion item on swap, first with Dread and 0 wd dot, and then without dread but with WD dot, in both cases i had decay and frostburn going (scenario 1 native vit decay then frostburn from dread converted Reaper, Level 100 (GD 1.2.1.6) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator, scenario 2 vit decay converted from trauma via wd, then frostburn from trauma wd conversion Reaper, Level 100 (GD 1.2.1.6) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator)
Sooo, weapon swap actually good for dot stacking now?
Also, Korvan wyrm and Raka’jax on swap for primal strike might be very good if you’re able to stack both % physical and % lightning damage on the rest of your gear
