I hope you can feel how furiously I’m downloading this patch and preparing my critical feedback
(VoS nerf needed, bunch of other ranged builds touched to test)
Will add useful feedback here this weekend I promise
I hope you can feel how furiously I’m downloading this patch and preparing my critical feedback
(VoS nerf needed, bunch of other ranged builds touched to test)
Will add useful feedback here this weekend I promise
Aether Primal Strike Druid: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/M2gPnrvV
No changes, loaded straight in from 220.127.116.11
Baseline: 18.104.22.168 ~5:00 Crucible, SR75 capable
Now: 22.214.171.124 first run (shattered, aethermarked, afflicted) - SR75 no death, including Reaper pull in boss room. This took a quad flat hit with base+bonus to Vortex of Souls and loss of 22 flat to Reckless Power and 10ish 5 piece bonus, basically ~60 flat lost. However kraken change does give it additional attack speed. Health slightly down with Krieg changes as well. CR pending finding a sucker to test run for me.
SNAP JUDGEMENT (pre crucible testing) - build still feels generally fine because it’s passthrough primal strike that deletes trash, but on a 0 class RR and the big chunk of flat lost, the previously painful single target fights are even worse. Reaper went through 2 full ghost cycles in that fight, and the non-aetherial high aether resist targets are rough too. Niche build caught in some of the aether crossfire but I expect above 5 minute results in crucible with the changes. Non-krieg ritualist aether PS was always going to be faster (~4:30 with banana running) but that should take a hit too.
NICE TO HAVE: Conduit is already loaded but would be super swell to see a bit of the lost aether flat make it’s way back there, since Druid aether RR does not seemed destined to be (outside offhand). Would prevent any of the other aether monsters from taking advantage of it, or lightning conversion VoS. Kraken changes do help so it’s not like it needs all 60ish flat granted. No one will believe me but this is actually my favorite primal strike build due to simplicity and aether colors everywhere so bias may be high.
edit: July 9th patch, lost aether flat (plus a bit more iirc) added to conduit, back to feeling as good as non-RR is probably going to feel. Happy with this
SR75-76 run, ideal mods
Elemental Phasebreaker Witchblade: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eVLjq45N
Baseline: 126.96.36.199 ~5:30-5:45 crucible, SR65 no death, SR75 couldn’t facetank every nemesis
Now: Ran two SR75 runs in 188.8.131.52. Couple deaths playing fast and loose but other than usual fabius shenanigans held up against all boss targets. 7/14 patch - sub 5 crucible potential! SR75-76 mostly stable, do have to mind warcry downtime
SNAP JUDEMENT: Damage is feeling better with buffs to phasebreaker and I assume volley relic wps, and extra phys res on boots doesn’t hurt either. Still had occasional walk up and immediate die scenarios if I didn’t lead with warcry, which also reminds me I feel like I have no idea how defense is going to play out in this game still until it’s happening. With mildly careful play this felt SR75 reasonable, although I did not hit resistant mutator. Looks like attack seru is getting a tiny bit more flat elemental next update. Will have tested in Crucible
NICE TO HAVE: Idk, will have this tested in crucible but it may be enough for the 5 minute baseline, although my personal bias still wants to see some non-firestrike ranged builds getting closer to 4:30 potential. This is also using 3 double rares with 2 insight suffixes for extra elemental %, so without dream gear still needs a bit moar. Is also somehow only 123% movespeed but that’s probably fixable.
edit: compared to physical DD this is still a relative peashooter.
edit2: July 9th patch, flat to korvaak helm and flat to dawnshard gloves which were equipped. Damage feels good now, but tank is I don’t even understand. I assume it’s cadence white shots with relatively poor physical to elemental conversion causing leech issues, but possession and warcry still don’t keep this upright without careful play. Probably need a minor tear down to address defense now, don’t remember it being so touchy but nothing was changed defensively so idk.
edit3: no changes, but careful play and SR75 no death is doable. Not going to tear up the charts but feels like another reasonable pistol option now
edit4: sr75-76 run on current patch
7/21 edit: my later SR feelings were more accurate than earlier and the extra flat has helped a ton. Probably a bit more to squeeze with devo tweaks and rings and good mutators but THIS IS OFFICIALLY A REAL BOY NOW
Deathdealer Physical Warlord: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2dXAe82
Baseline: 184.108.40.206 SR 5:10ish SR75 easy, 85 no death
Now: SR75 with aethermarked was a breeze
SNAP JUDGEMENT: So, I retract my previous statement about elemental cadence feeling close. Pulled this out which was in a good spot, and elemental is not close. This build was already an attempt to lean into pure physical with only modest base flat being converted beyond Smite and LoE, so it’s not bothered at all by converted physical damage changes. The extra physical flat feels like it’s at least made up for where it was, and after the next wave of test changes this should go from low end modern performance to a very competitive pistol build (with cadence!).
NICE TO HAVE: Nothing, will continue to test results as physical damage is readjusted. I can’t imagine a world where phys is buffed enough to turn this OP but will flag if it does, otherwise excited it has the chance to move up in the acceptable performance range.
edit: July 9th patch, this feels very good. First successful SR90 run on it with pretty tame boss room, 1 death and then kill of Fabius in shards. believe this is the most well rounded pistol setup I have, go figure
7/18 edit: still coming in around 5 minutes for crucible, but whatever, lacks a bit in aoe but considering the full picture I think this is doing well
Lightning Primal Strike Druid: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/pZrk9OON
Changes: Nofika4u adjusted devo tree to include ghoul and 3 point wendigo, trading I assume a damage proc for more proc attack speed. Not shown in link above yet
Baseline: 220.127.116.11 ~4:05 crucible max, SR75 fine, SR85 capable
Now: Haven’t tried yet in SR, but nofika4u just had another excellent CR run despite VoS damage tuning with a 4:01 time. Ghoul was also a potential on this build as the uncapped attack speed benefits from the proc, looks like it should be in use going forward. Will test in SR and see if it can take superbosses yet to see how far out of tune build still may be
Mythical Vortex of Souls: reduced Aether damage to 37 and reduced base damage
Some recovery for Aether version though:
Conduit of Wild Whispers: increased Aether damage modifier for Primal Strike to 360 and its Cold damage modifier to 360
back to the testing!
Stormserpent Dagallon Vindi: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/q2mAnol2
Baseline: Unplayable in SR75, damage poop, tank poop. Didn’t really spend time at all optimizing
Now: Almost SR75 capable! Damage is there, tank is not with that phys res
SNAP JUDGEMENT: Pulled this out for giggles more than anything to see if I had ludrigan gear already spawned in. I did not, but gave it a spin anyway. Patch or two of stormserpent changes + savagery buff and this is almost a real boy! 10% phys res and 11k hp are awful though, couldn’t kill Grava either run in with resistant mutator on. Was able to clear a SR75 room with Kaisan and IM though (multiple IM crit deaths with + OA mutator). It’s a stretch for this set with no inquisitor support and all the key +1 slots occupied so some defensive stats are lower than ideal.
NICE TO HAVE: To be decided, I didn’t expect this to be anything and will test Ludrigan savagery + totems as well. Physical res is also completely absent on Ludri set though, so I fear defense will be the limiting factor as well, leading to strip offense just to survive. Maybe I’ll be surprised! Either way devo tree adjustments will be tested as well
Ludrigan Vindi first pass: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/Q2zjG5k2
Now: Two SR75-76 runs, two deaths both times, both avoidable if you aren’t playing brain dead. So far no nemesis single target was any concern, including IM, but haven’t run into Grava yet. Latter should be doable even if you have to 90% kite and just shoot occasionally though.
SNAP JUDGEMENT: First pass at gear/devos/skill points as there are definitely tweaks available. Pretty surprised with results! Single target, especially with some good chilling round/storm spread procs, rips single targets up. Usual savagery problems pop up, mainly not being able to clear groups fast enough, but can be managed in SR (have concerns about Crucible) and don’t feel as bad as my previous attempts with elgoloth. Wimpy phys res was mostly a non issue expect for the don’t stand here attacks (Alek, trees that drop rocks, etc)
NICE TO HAVE: TBD. Going to tweak gear, including trying dagallon pistol in place of the loaded yellow craft. Finding savagery points will get tougher. Also will try pumping maelstrom higher and see if it gets to a point of clearing most trash.
My dream would be lightning savagery WPS + lightning focus WoP as opposed to slow ramping totems, but that ship has probably sailed.
edit: Played a couple more SR75-76 runs. Dagallon secondary maybe clears trash a bit faster, but not nearly as much as I expected, and felt like the single target tradeoff wasn’t worth it. Needs more testing but not the magic bullet. Did hit a shattered+resistant run that was rough, damage loss pushed packs to live longer which meant 6-7 or so deaths in the run. Only change was putting on ultos shoulders for last savagery charge and phys res, but lower DA. Maelstrom, Stormbox, different devos or more WPS maybe help fix trash clear. Phys res gonna be sad regardless
Ludrigan Vindi v2, July 9th patch: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/xZyGRPm2
Now: Multiple SR75-76 runs. Mostly successful, Grava sucks, and big batches of mobs, especially with jerkface eldritch FG dudes (de)buff spamming or anything with physical hitters usually resulted in death
Reference SR75 run:
5:30ish crucible run by roman. May be a dead end for AA approach to keep up with caster and general 4:30-5:00 builds
SNAP JUDGEMENT: Minor gear changes, moved to ravager eye to bump up DA and see if spike deaths would stop (no, but less of them I spose). New devo tree, specifically tempest, felt like it played out better than korvaak for helping to clean up trash that sat behind my target. Dropped wendigo totem because I really don’t need the leech now and moved points around in WoR or maelstrom as runs went on. Eventually stuck in WoP for DA and HP. Single target is still very rewarding, and other than Grava no single nemesis has been an issue. Going to see if this will survive or crash and burn in Crucible at this point. By far the biggest remaining issue is the physical res. I could in theory dig up a bit more by swapping boots to worthless skill points and grab a few more nodes to break the skill tree, but it is a very frustrating once ghoul goes down because you will get spiked and die in packs. Going to try one more swap to my favorite kelphat ring for another 2 seal, but don’t think it’ll matter.
NICE TO HAVE: Phys res, but dropping it on the set probably makes the caster too safe since it can roll on totem offhand. Offense is enjoyable with both casting and shooting feeling like they have impact, and single target with enough AoE (pending crucible tests) is a bit unique among at par pistol builds.
Pierce Pistol and Shield Paladin: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/O2Gg8wX2
Baseline: Very slow SR75-76, ??? crucible
Now: Very slow 75-76, ??? crucible!
SNAP JUDGEMENT: Have tried multiple configurations of the past couple years, and had been a bit since I tried it. Basically still the same old, can be setup very tanky but clear speed is awful, WoP even with gore helm doesn’t clear trash nearly as fast as a good Blades of Wrath proc, and single target is mostly lacking except when Smite racial can apply. Did try Ravager briefly but I believe it would fall apart in phase 2. Got bored before that point
NICE TO HAVE: Seriously no idea. It’s needs more of everything but pierce greens were just toned down with over performance. Passthrough feels like a cop out at this point but would at least fix the AoE clear. Will try dual wield version but traditionally that added a little of damage while losing a bunch of tank from Erulan.
Physical Sandspitter Paladin: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/w26OeR8V
Baseline: ~5:00 crucible, SR85
Now: Crucible TBD, SR75 fine
SNAP JUDGEMENT: Well, entire build needs to be reviewed with all the gear changes that hit this, not even considering physical damage changes. That said, plugged it in as is and felt good in an SR75 clear. There is a bit more noticeable difference between the big boy trash and smaller mobs, have to look if that’s an armor difference or if some other debuff was live.
NICE TO HAVE: Err, test patch GT to quickly plug in possible options? Resists already sucked on this so this will be a ground up rebuild. Either this or Vitality RF Oppressor have always felt like the strongest RF gun options and doesn’t look like that will change even with physical conversion revamp. Attack speed is still well under cap with a of fervor pistol, like ~180% with all other speed sources, which seems not ideal.
7/19 edit: played with this some more and mild gear changes since some ele conversion is now covered on the gun. Pre-physical changes this felt faster than deathdealer warlord, but now feels slower. Dire bear changes at least help but no longer feels like top RF build.
Fire Stronghold Purifier https://www.grimtools.com/calc/q2mzg0zV
Baseline: 5:20ish estimate, SR75
Now: tbd, SR75 fine
SNAP JUDGEMENT: Solid sr75 running, wps is still another nice shotgun, and +2 gives nice flexibility on a point hungry class. But I also hate the meteor devo proc so I’ll never play this again This was mostly an offensive approach and appeared to have fastest kill times of my doodles, but something like @RektbyProtoss super tank or justice set with lower damage but more tank probably worth it. That said even my bad crucible piloting I cleared twice with no issues
NICE TO HAVE: Nothing, this appears to be setup well for fire strike with plenty of flexibility for heavy tank to conversion damage bonanza
Shieldbreaker and paladin up next for the set
Fire Stronghold Paladin: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/b280qMz2
Baseline: ???, damage was super low and was unfun to play
Now: SR75 no problem, crucible TBH but probably won’t torture @romanN1 to run it
SNAP JUDGEMENT: RF is worse multiple target AND single target compared to FS. Tested dummy kills times for giggles, FS setup above is ~11 seconds. This is ~17-18 seconds, mainly due to not getting crazy shotgun WPS scaling (offensive devos are the same). Really the only thing this setup has going for it over the FS above is it’s tankier. Which tbf could also be achieved using 3 piece Justice set there too and still have better single and multi. Buffed judgement does help with trash more than say totems+wind devils on Ludrigan vindi somehow, so it’s not a completely awful play.
NICE TO HAVE: Single target damage? I can live with firestrike (and primal strike) being AoE kings for ranged, but having it outdamage a solo target this largely seems silly. And unlike fire strike, going non-set for conversion doesn’t have nearly the payoff. Really just trying to get storm spread and ranged expertise converted, which while nice doesn’t seem nearly enough to trade off flat and judgement bonuses on 3 piece Justice. Would be great to have a physical to fire non-melee weapon mod for RF so all that physical on RF/Safeguard/Smite/Bursting Round aren’t hoping for good conversion rolls and still be under 100% cap. Beyond that a % weapon damage mod to RF if needed, but also don’t want retal fuckery to go wild either scrubbing this for now, seeing the amount of flat phys laying around, a mod would hopefully be enough on its own. In game my phys to fire conversion right now is 61%.
This was a rough run, not great mutators, packs with healers, but does show off the ability to stand around shooting at stuff that isn’t dying
PRM Elemental Magehunter (LOOK MA NO BULLETS): https://www.grimtools.com/calc/4ZDyWJzN
Baseline: unplayable at SR75 iirc
Now: Hey, SR75 pretty stable!
SNAP JUDGEMENT: Well these pistols are usually a meme for PRM, but elemental has seen some additional flat sources so gave it a spin. Trash clear is ace, single target as expected can be slow. Censure and Maiven and Seal even make very low phys res manageable (originally tried 0 base phys res which also wasn’t unplayable). Didn’t hit any unkillable nemesis, although Fabius can be touch and go as usual for low HP characters
NICE TO HAVE: Single target damage but no idea how to grab. Double pistol can’t even grab devastation but points are tight anyway. So I guess just MOAR DAMAGE. Alternatively, better PRM support on the guns. IEE and overload are nice for flat addition with the gun mod, but still hardcapping PRM and Proliferation needs specific green mods. +1 arcanist and lowered IEE+Overload mods would be the dream, or just +prm skill line
Will add SR75-76 run later for giggles
edit: slow run, 2 derpy deaths
better run with ideal mutators, just SR75
~5:00 crucible from @romanN1
Dusting off one old PS build and one that I had doodled with for awhile but finally seems to have something decent. What I get for trying to ignore Ultos set
Sparkthrower Vindi Primal Strike: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/0V0xPP1V
Base: Who knows, last thread is from like 2 years ago
Now: SR75 stable with full physique, can occasionally die in large packs of jank
SNAP JUDGEMENT: Eh, feels fine. Very minor updates from @Nery’s last update which was the most recent I could find in the pile. Physical resist and not being able to quickly clear out large packs are the main issues. Honestly my biggest meh is it’s boring, trying non-set versions for better phys res tanked the damage hard with lost skill points to PS line. Additional attack speed sources since then make kelphat rings the obvious choice.
NICE TO HAVE: Phys res I spose, but not a deal breaker. Also one of those primal strike radius mods for ranged to counter passthrough PS dominance <.<
Sparkbolt Elementalist Primal Strike: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/M2gz44BN
Base: Literally never seen anyone use the weapon
Now: SR75 pretty stable! Huge dot built in to the weapon, so there are probably more creative ways to use this. In video can see trying to move on from packs quicker and letting dot do the job.
SNAP JUDGEMENT: The slightly more active play style with hit and run is nice, but it can definitely be fragile and elementalist doesn’t have a heal to support it either. Skill points lean towards firestrike but half converted explosive strike + static strike was a total bomb. Tried with the 3 available pieces of fire to lightning armor, but it was too slow to kill and just got overwhelmed. Kelphat rings are more questionable here with lower attack speed and the big dot focus
NICE TO HAVE: Ditch the static strike support as is it’s extremely lackluster and primal strike is the much more viable autoattack option. Storm Surge would be nice because it’s very hard to cap on full ultos without bombing your attack speed on those blue gloves. But really any other lightning skill support would be better. Energy regen is actually an issue too, I’d prefer loadstone in the medal for another DR proc but needed spark to become stable. Technically probably fixable with points in Mog pact which I will try.
Deathdealer Tactician by @banana_peel
Base: Not aware of anyone trying
Now: SR75 ~4:40
SNAP JUDGEMENT: We all expected this to run considerably slower, even with banana run times factored in. Banana reported WPS feel good, deathdealer proc definitely helps proc up white cadence shots and even Inquisitor WPS don’t look bad here
NICE TO HAVE: Same general trend as most other damage types, physical pistols coming in at the lower end of most buffed physical times but still in the acceptable balance range. Haven’t played myself but also look plenty sturdy for Crucible and deeper SR play
Separate call out for the primal strike duo above:
Sparkthrower Vindi - 5:30 with not great mutators
Sparkbolt Elementalist - 5:04 with nice mutators
These probably run closer together with neutral mutators. Sparkthrower just seems totally behind the curve now. I’d love to see a radius mod added, although @romanN1 thought adding a nice electrocute dot would help crucible especially. Sparkbolt was in the better spot although helped by nice mutators, meaning this is about peak run time. As mentioned previously dropping +static strike for storm surge or brute force or something general lightning damage related would help. Can’t get a damage mod to it so otherwise I guess it’s just attack speed or MOAR DOT.
Evoker of Elgoloth Vindi: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/62abK6kV
Base: SR75, crucible struggled
Now: SR75 smooth, crucible pending tests
ideal mutator run
SNAP JUDGEMENT: Well I built this wrong before and tried some changes with savagery and additional weapon buffing. It’s always been pretty good to great single target but awful trash clear. Reckless tempest is definitely the devo play to help with that, and korvaak also gives up some pbaoe clear and safety. After some initial runs also dropped bursting and chilling wps to get more points into lightning tether, then maelstrom, then both. Trash clear is mostly good now, can’t really stretch for more maelstrom points other than testing ring change and dropping a ton of flat.
NICE TO HAVE: I don’t understand the conversion on the gun, no physical damage in savagery and even storm spread is pierce/lightning. Would rather see pierce -> lightning if anything but may be too much for single target. Having electrocute % on the ring procs would be super sweet. Otherwise more attack speed but that’s part of the trade off to use all the lightning flat available in the world rings. And then the age old complaint of wind devil lifetime or CDR, since you really need maelstrom to put in some work here.
edit: very thin margins, shattered or resistant slow kill speed, packs live longer, deaths start becoming more possible. Not sure how to eek more area clear though
Update to Primal Strike VoS Lightning Druid:
Changes needed for single target fights: No longer afford tempest with no weapon damage, so ultos/korvaak/spear only. Ghoul added in. Seal of Corruption debuff in place of hell’s bane ammo. Spirit dump removed for more physique/DA.
Single target damage has taken a big hit and Grava matchup at least can not be safely facetanked at SR75. Mixed up devo map for ghoul, korvaak+ultos and will try spear for completeness. Grava also can’t be safely pulled into other mobs due to his debuffs, so you just have to stutter step him around the map. IM still needs tested but have concerns now with that matchup as well
Vitality RF Oppressor: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/DV9B6kQZ
Base: SR75, Crucible ~4:50. Huge DA problems with the crit change in SR as of 1.1.9
Now: SR75 single target great, AoE poor, no death with pretty aggressive play. Crucible TBH but expecting around same mark
SNAP JUDGEMENT: This build is a pain in the ass to juggle CC resists, physical resist, and DA while keeping damage up. Converted will of rattosh is no longer a magic trash clear, so it’s smite and seal of the void putting in work. Single target damage is strong and there is a million ADCtH but can be one shot by big mobs. Also vitality RF points are very hard to find, have to wear off damage type medal (also for dual wield) and gloves, or a very lucky roll on the green medal. RF vitality ring is also pretty redundant otherwise, but testing 3 piece blood knight for hard capped soul harvest and 22/26 RF was basically same or slightly lower damage. Dying God path has better stats but damage takes a decent hit that way.
NICE TO HAVE: DA, phys res, CC res not reliant on ascension, and something stronger for AoE. RF points on other gear. Otherwise would need something like vitality judgment to get an AoE skill on here. It’s not awful because the damage is high enough to cover some of the usual non-passthrough non-firestrike shortcomings, but I’d be lying if it’s still not frustrating to play ranged and either constantly reposition for the mobs that run behind you or take forever to kill because you have to shoot every direction manually. Mildly salty watching any rando set supported caster smash single target and aoe with a single skill.
edit: alright I’m still going to beg for a little more AoE/damage on procs/DA/something, but did have 2 of 10 no pharma clears on Ravager so it’s not a train wreck. Is still at risk for crit death at this DA, 3 deaths in first 50%, other 5 usually in the 15-30% HP left