I read the post. I was very much on topic. I can red crayon it for you.
No change is necessary. Compromise and figure it out. If you can’t that’s a you issue.
Too bad if you don’t like my opinion. I equally disagree. I’m sorry if I am not dutifully bowing down.
Keep it civil folks.
again, re-iterating this simple idea: asking for DA is just more power creep. It’s much easier and more elegant to get Occultist mastery and Chaos devo path in-line with other masteries/devo paths in terms of energy regeneration.
Again, I already said that but gonna say it again: if I post something it means that I tested most variations and exhausted viable alternative ways to put it together. Dropping either Abom or Dying God on a Chaos build (especially one with decent cdr) is just never a good trade off.
When levelling - sure. I have never seen it used on a proper endgame build once. Go check out our grimsheet with the builds that we tested for the last top20 testing. I think there were over 60 builds and not a single one used Ectoplasm. The value loss compared to Crystal or Topaze is just too much.
Even if that assumption is true, times when it was true are in a distant past now. There are plenty of Chaos builds and most prominent ones are not using Arcanist.
It’s still the case. There are more choices nowadays and more nuance.
Look how much more data do you really need? I can’t go thru every Chaos build out there. But I assure, I play enough different builds, more than most of the posters here. And this problem I brought up, is not something new, it has been brought up countless times by different players.
Also, one of the points I brought up - discrepancy between flat regen off-hands and % regen off-hands needs no proof.
Nah, man, red crayon stuff in your personal notepad. You have some personal agenda against me and other top20 guys, you need to figure it out with your therapist maybe, sorry you that you feel that way but keep your nonsense takes out of my threads, please.
are people seriously arguing over that it’s fine to be forced into a lvl 5 comp, as potential dmg archetype, over objectively stronger comps, that any other build freely gets to pick, because some a more scuffed on energy than others? @_@
i think some people here are biting too deep into the “meta sour grapes” if that’s the notion
it’s really really not, because energy sustain is more about comfort of play, that has no build power impact, best exacmple of this is how it’s a non issue for 99% of builds to begin with
Start slapping in extra DA and HP “to make up for fixing that energy issue”(let alone on lvl 5 comps?@_@), is exactly how you expand powercreep will beyond the target issues and let other builds dip into useful extra stats they didn’t need.
i find it amazing the notion of fixing energy issues is even a contentious issue, when one of the early examples is how there is an outright huge disparity where energy is not even a blip on a radar and far beyond a second thought, because energy is “free” on all those builds.
Yet somehow it would powercreep “meta” too much to slap energy on dying god or something? @_@
what is even the argument trying to be made there that isnt’ just far outlandish and only existing because digging in heels as it has the sounds of “builds getting buffed”
Nothing personal. I just don’t believe most of the suggestions given are good/better for the game. This a free forum and I haven’t violated any rule regarding this thread. You can insult me all you want if it makes you feel better.
Again no build, by you, has been posted showing a compromised version. As pointed out to you by an above poster.
If a suggestion seems unnecessary, regardless of who posts it (top20 peeps or a first time forum user), then well, expect it to be scrutinized. I mean that’s what you would do right?
Did anyone who suggested ectoplasm check if it actually solves the problem?
Last time I had energy issues, I equipped three of them out of rage, but it hardly did anything to solve the energy problem I had 
It’s just not good if you don’t have a ton of %energy regen already. And if you do, you’re probably better off getting some form of energy leach.
perfect point too
Yeah, everything that mostly offers %energy has always been a hilarious garbage past like level 40. Mark of illusions actually provide almost the same regen given the bonus spirit and then has DA to compete with topaz/crystals.
It’s just so happened that a lot of changes that happened to be good/better for the game were from my feedbacks and from feedbacks of other experienced builders that you have some animosity against. Coincidence? Or maybe we know ball?
What kind of compromise do you want to see? Build has been using Mark of Illusions (inferior ring component here - compromise), had one craft for energy regen (again, inferior crafting bonus - compromise) and Arcane Spark (don’t need disrupt protection on Occultist, so part of Spark’s value is lost - compromise). Do you want me to “compromise” and use Scales instead of DG?
Then why did you not comment on my suggestion to fix discrepancy between flat energy regen off-hands and % energy regen off-hands? Where is scrutiny on that?
Fair enough. I don’t believe that any energy regen needs to just be thrown on gear/devotions in order to solve a problem. I have my own methodology to fix these issues and they clash with yourself and testers.
Of course your suggestions are being implemented. It’s not like Crate gonna take my lonely single suggestion over a group who come to a consensus. I would think they would agree with that group over some rando on the internet.
@Gnomish_Inquisition has a good point about energy regen. But the thing is this issue may be a nothing burger but the issue is more encompassing. It has already led the the suggestion of increasing other stats instead of regen when neither is necessary if people are willing to except the fact that this set up just doesn’t get the job done in a way that you want it to without putting more stats on stuff or via compromise.
Let’s say you are absolutely right and Crate does put energy regen on the gear you want. Will other stats get removed to accommodate the budget for the regen? Loosely I know items are budgeted. If they do get removed, does it affect other set ups?
I don’t want it to become “slap this item on and all energy issues just go bye bye.”
You’re mistaken if you think this comes from a place of hate. It comes from a place of concern. I feel that there are a lot of issues that are meant to be solved by the player, such as this one.
Per your post nothing has been done to address this issue.
So either the numbers are being tinkered with and a change is coming or it is seen as a non issue.
If a change does come, this is me preemptively saying “you were right and I was wrong.”
when did suggesting increasing regen cause other stats to be increased/ask to be increased? @_@
nor is anyone suggesting to take away stats from gear, that would be a general nerf, and something you’re making up yourself
what’s being suggested is fixing it in devos “where it affects to archetype”/chaos devos and or to fix on skills (personal issue for me there is not all chaos casters are Occultist so BoD doesnt’ fix all), and to “swap” the flat 3 flat energy regen on some offhands, for the %regen the other caster offhands already has
it seems like there is either a lot of misinterpretation or word in mouth’ing going on there 
because reading that reply really had me “this aint it” feeling
Lee even outright highlighted it in bold in the OP, aside from being part of the title too
this whole topic is probably about the absolute least powercreep/“meta” buff request Lee has ever done 
Was referring to this as a good point
And this
In regards to asking for other stats. Unless I miss interpreted. If so disregard my comment.
ye but that’s not Lees/“ours” requests, that’s TPOM’s rejection of the OP points with an entirely different tradeoff suggestion, making it that much strangerr since it changes the entire scope and impact
where fixing energy in devos etc just make chaos builds more comfortable to play
like, i’m sure as sht not gonna swap ecto plasms on this Purifier, Level 100 (GD 1.2.1.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator to fix the energy issue, or mark of illusion. Aside from the regen still being ass it should be obvious why topaz stats is needed. And if you just slap hp and DA onto illusion it wont fix my build but now you enabled powercreep on a bunch of other builds that can let go of topaz and use the dmg boost too
that’s why it was immediately called out as a bad solution and counterproductive to the whole “build buff” complaint.
Fixing energy regen isn’t a buff like that, it makes something not feel horrible to play and just evens the playable sense field since vast majority of other builds in the game do not ever think about energy.
Heck vast majority of builds thinks so little about energy twice was the stat removed from the game on affixes to not dilute the pool
Only seems fair to fix energy for the remaining 2% builds, no?
In terms of items I have no idea because my suggestion were:
I think adding %energy regen to either of tier-3 procs and then fixing flat regen/% regen discrepancy on off-hands will mostly solve the issue. At the same time Occultist as a mastery could use regen somewhere.
Yea it is not. I was just pointing out that it occurred. I am not commenting on whether or not it is a good solution.
Doesn’t change the fact that adding more stats might not be the correct solution. Not everything should be easily solved.
Also not looking at this from power creep perspective.
My mistake. I’ll edit my post.
cool, then explain why a handful of build should have this singular specific issue, and no other builds should?
i’ll reiterate, most builds in the game do not even think about energy, to the point it’s not even on the radar, so much so the stat got removed from the affix pool…
-so why should these/few suddenly care extra about energy in their build?
Exactly this. If energy management is supposed to be a thing in modern GD there should be some logic behind it. Like ALL energy heavy builds should be min-maxed with Energy in mind. And spending more energy means dealing more damage or something. Stuff like this.
Otherwise as Gnomish said, 98% of the builds don’t really know that Energy exists while 2% suffer.
I said exactly that, you should’ve addressed this concern to thepowerofmediocrity who suggested adding stats instead of energy.
Sure I think I can answer that. In order to do so can you please list every change that added e regen to gear/devotions as a direct result of player feedback.
Then the changes Crate made on their own. It should show you why somethings have discrepancies.
But I don’t see the point.
If you folks want the problem solved immediately for ever build then I mean go for it.
Eventually I am willing to bet someone will come in saying them have too much energy regen and want more “useful” stats.
So this change is for “2%” of builds? I mean you could just remove energy costs from all skills and have it work like spirit in PoE2 where it’s used for reservation only. Isn’t that the same effect? Or should energy issues just be for leveling?
Well I guess if that’s how you want things to be so be it. No point in arguing it. So agree to disagree. o7
cool, so you can’t explain it, got it 