Feedback in regard to loot-system and drop-rate

Answers in red.

There is when the number of elements it supports, and the number of budget/endgame builds (at a given level of viability) are higher than others on all levels of viability.

Nope, they are still not “over supported” no matter how you wanna twist it. “Over supporting” means they have too much gear, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Until you present an argument that actually shows this, i’m not gonna believe it.

Mastery combos with better synergy than others is not the same as those masteries being “over supported”.

If anything, Inquisitor, Necromancer and Oathkeeper are better designed masteries compared to previous masteries. Because the devs by that point knew 100% well how a mastery fully works. This has nothing to do with being “over supported”.

correction: MH and spellbinder both outshone, and outshine warlocks. All warlocks. Not just Aether warlock (which is a contrived, and flawed example, with Warlock AAR is always transmuted for the reason you mentioned.).

Warlock will always get outshined by Spellbinder and Mage Hunter because Inquisitor and Necro are better for Aether and Inquis is better for chaos than Arcanist. Unless you give a crazy overpowered thing to Occultist to compensate for the utter lack synergy between Arcanist and Occultist, Inquisitor and Necromancer are always going to be better.

Actual synergy between masteries will always trump item support.

If that was the case, I’m sure the recent months’ Demolitionist threads would have used Conjurer as an example instead of vindicator.

Yes, mines are clunky, yes, it still has no radius, but Demo has four lightning skills: Stun Jacks (which was so grossly undersupported that the mythical wyrmbone mask was my prime tool in trolling demo threads, since it converted forcewave to lightning, but stun jacks’ physical damage was left unconverted before the 1.1 patch.), Grenado with transmuter, Canister with the 1.1+ transmuter, and Mortar Trap with Mythical Dread-mask of Gurgoth

Fluff made a pretty powerful Conjurer, same for other people. Selective memory doesn’t really help you.

I forgot Stun Jacks, but Inquisitor just supports lightning better than Demolitionist ever will. And Vindicator is a popular choice because it’s a low gear requirement mastery combo. It doesn’t take much to make it work, while Elementalist is much harder to make it work. And Conjurer, while being as strong as Vindicator in terms of power, it’s a more frail mastery combo. People like consistent power and tankyness. People will always gravitate towards the one that does both.

Inq and Necro support all build types better, due to easier to use RR, Mark of Torment/Inq seal in defense, Word of Renewal offering racial damage on top of it’s DA, Death Sentence offering stacking Aether and Chaos RR despite the mastery sporting no damage of that type, meanwhile the chief chaos mastery has no inbuilt chaos RR on it’s own. Deadly Aim for practically free crit% damage. Necro just adds Spectral Wrath for a (you guessed it) stacking -RR%

Seems you understand why Warlock is just an inferior choice for builds with Inquis and Necro for aether and Inquis for Chaos (Deceiver is better for chaos than Warlock).

That was simply because it didn’t use the mandatory WD%+ADCTH at all AND it had no gear to speak of resulting in low armor and phys res. Even in that case the vindi was farming far better and safer than any other character at that gear level without the mandatory adcth.

And Vitality Conjurer can do this, with much more sustainability. Is now Shaman a “cheese” mastery? It’s not.

Whether it’s shit balance via gear abundance or skill design doesn’t change the fact that the balance is shit.

Inquis being better for Chaos (the mastery designed around Pierce and Elemental) describes succintly the reason I called it “cheese”.

your vitality conjurer example is poor because necro is way better to pair with a vit occultist than shaman, due to better damage reduction via MoT and Decay, consistent RR, better OA boost, and better damage. Which proves the point, again.

Again, back on track, I had to kill Sunny Typhoon with a Wraithbound Sacrificial Knife at level 48 because nothing better dropped or was available from merchant.

I’m just gonna say what everybody’s thinking…Boromonokli Fixes Grim Dawn mod when?

That’s the best post I’ve seen so far on this forum.

As soon as you stop messing it up. :wink:

Then your mod will never catch up.

It is more inevitable than Yugol & Azrakaa 18+ art making it’s way to the internet.

(In more seriousness, I made a tentative stab at it back in january with the IK set and Shar’Zul’s incinerator, but waited for forgotten gods to avoid having to work twice.)

I’ve only been annoyed by 2 item rng things in GD:

  1. Quest rewards being irrelevant to both story and build (except a few specific quests). This was disappointing from a rpg view.
  2. Blueprint reroll mechanism.

For those that really need a specific drop to enjoy the game, the GDstash mod exists. And in a way, it is nice to know that if I ever get completely frustrated with rng, I know there is a vaccine. The mod community support is impressive.

There are things that I’ll probably never find (ahem:mythical peerless eye of beronath) and some BP…but for now I find the compromise fun.

TLDR: if you are that angry, I’d say to just use GDStash; you should be having fun.

So you are advocating that drop rates be enhanced because some people cheat and/or farm using powerful masteries. What about people that don’t cheat and/or simply play+farm with a character they enjoy? Whenever something like this is changed some group of people get affected negatively.

I don’t think it makes sense to add an immersion-breaking check box that reduces the loot pool to your masteries to the game. Cheating the RNG should be left to mods. AFAIK increased drop rate mod exists (maybe it’s out of date for FG but idk), tools to craft and store gear exist. I think the better question is why don’t the OP, you and others that agree just use those mods and tools?

Yes, I think the drop rates are generous. Farming and grind are a part of end game in arpg and in GD a lot of story and side bosses quickly become trivial as a player acquires more legendaries.

That’s funny, because whenever a skill gets nerfed because of it’s endgame performance with the absolute best and rarest gear avaliable, it negatively affects the rest (and most) of the playerbase. When you lock more and more of a skill’s functionality and effectiveness around L94 legendary sets and L90 boss MIs, you’re negatively affecting the rest of us because just a few people used cheated gear and complained that this or that was “easy”.

I picked this earlier since it connects to the earlier argument much better. You see, when you pick a mastery that I call oversupported, or cheese, or overpowered, or imbalanced, or just flat out stronger than others in the same type or even overall, you might find that the number of items that you find and are useful to your particular character, are much higher than the stuff you find when playing other characters.

And here the trivialization you mention does wonders to change perception. Droprates go from one purple every half hour or more, to one purple per minute that includes several rolls of nemesis MIs that require a lot more time to track down in normal campaign.

Which of these droprates look generous to you? The legendary per minute, or the one every half an hour?

I’d rather have a fair, but consistent rate that doesn’t go from one extreme to another.

Why don’t I use it? Because I don’t want to cheat the RNG per se, but would still like some interesting finds between falling off the chair from the boredom that farming is.

And frankly, I agree with you that a “smart loot” system is a poor one. It is a pain to implement with the current tech, it negatively affects altoholics, and for all the harm it does it doesn’t solve anything.

There are a bunch of things that could work, from reworking affixes, tightening the screws on the more useless stuff, to tying more and more gear and their affix tables to themes (no more frostporn of shattering salazar’s blade please) which would be tied to certain dungeons and loosely defined regions /monsters of the game. Each has it’s pros and cons.

Even if it was a token system we could buy with iron bits that increased the % of “class based loot” as a way to dump end game currency. Would keep money relevant (disclaimer: Only lvl 72 so not sure if there’s money sinks at end game).

Those nerfs are considered necessary for balance though; clear speeds were getting out of hand. Imo a bigger issue is nerfing builds based on clear times used with dying god. I doubt the average GD player would pick dying god as much as these forums do, but some people also don’t like taking it on non-vit/chaos builds.

Drop rate changes are not necessary because mods are available to tweak them. Sure crafting gear can be called RNG cheating but mods could also tweak the drop rate to your standard of reasonableness. IIRC some mods do this already, but since you are the one that cares so much you should know though :wink:

But the question is which part of the builds do you nerf? Do you nerf the skills people rely on to get anywhere, or do you nerf the gear that makes it available to do those clear speeds?

I hardly see complaints that budget this or budget that gets huge clearspeeds. It was nowhere out of hand, and the only thing those skill nerfs achieved were further removing build diversity from the below-BiS tier.

And if Dying God is taken in near everything because of it’s crit damage and those builds are too strong, even though they don’t do vit or chaos, then why not just… Fix dying god? Y’know? Like any sane person would. If BIS tier clearspeeds are too fast, nerf BIS tier options, not everything and everyone else (cough voidcutter).

In short: close the gap.

Droprate-wise, I’d probably like chest runs brought in via reusable one-shot/chamber of bones tier chests that mostly require mobility to reach and little else. Something like treasure troves without the dynamite requirement, less random, and more run required. It’d make loot hunt a little more varied if anything, and probably more accessible.

I think this would have been a good quest reward system for the random item gifts. Give a token instead, then let the player take it to an NPC for a choice from the current restricted quest drop list. Much better for the basic rpg character run…and since stats indicate that most players don’t finish ultimate = more specific tailoring to their story character, and ultimately more character satisfaction by the end of the story.

It’s too late now and someone at Crate really loved Diablo’s rng a bit too much, but…oh well.