Feedback on Loot System, HC mode, Enchanting, Re-speccing

Hello all,

I have loved the game, but there are some issues that should be addressed to make the game infinitely more enjoyable.

  • ISSUE: Not HC (hardcore) friendly as it does not have second life passives, has spike damage and balance issues too. You will discover there are only some builds that are HC Ultimate viable.
  • SOLUTION: Give more circuit-breaker skills to all classes, increase Turtle Shell Devotion shield at lvl 20, make Mirror of Ereoctes immune to CC and life/energy leech. Possibly consider second life passive skills.
  • ISSUE: Loot system is antiquated and non-innovative and non-rewarding. Unacceptable in 2016. Look at Loot 2.0 with Diablo 3 RoS for an example of a rewarding loot system. 99% of the loot in Grim Dawn is worthless junk as you will discover. This is because there is no additional weighting to get a higher chance of items for either of your classes, nevermind your build. This problem is exarcebated by the rarer the items are, making legendary items for your class and also your build pretty much impossible to get. Note: I have no problem with the drop rates of Epics and Legendaries, just that they should drop APPLICABLE equipment more often.
  • SOLUTION: A simple change would be to at least give you an increased chance of items for either of your hybrid classes, where applicable. This would still mean you rarely get an upgrade as there are many build variations within classes, but at least we are getting closer to a rewarding loot system.
  • ISSUE: Build defining legendaries should drop much earlier, as by the time you get them (lvl requirement 75 usually) you’ve done almost everything in the game.
  • SOLUTION: Either make lower level legendaries with lower stats as well as the ‘Empowered’ late-game version, or just remove the level requirement and make it attribute-based.
  • ISSUE: Inability to re-spec Attributes and Mastery points. This completely defeats the whole purpose of experimenting with your build. It is completely unacceptable. Say you actually through some miracle got a Legendary set amulet for your class and build. It needs 100 more Spirit to equip though. What the hell? So you start fiddling with your optimal Skills and Devotions, scrounging for Spirit and %Spirit everywhere you can, and you still run up short. Good job Crate. Mastery points being permanent means you are very wary of changing your build too. I really struggle to understand this fundamental flaw in the game, I can’t think of a single reason you can re-spec Skills and Devotions but not attributes or Mastery points.
  • SOLUTION: Obviously allow attribute and Mastery re-speccing.
  • ISSUE: No enchanting to roll off unwanted affixes. When you finally do get an upgrade it usually comes with 2-3 completely worthless affixes. Rolling these to more desirable ones by using materials should be possible.
  • SOLUTION: Introduce enchanting into the game.

Thank you for reading, love your game, please make it even better!

Your HC issue:
There’s more than enough possibilities to procc life regeneration via (multiple) devotions and items. Second life passives ridicule the whole point of HC, if they proc, you just wait in town till they go off cooldown. There’s nothing fun about that. Instead learn the abilities of different enemies and accept the fact that there are enemies with special melee attacks that can ruin your day. It’s a part of the game and it makes you try to always be aware of your surroundings and of what the enemies do, especially on Hardcore.

Loot is fine. As it was said in your review thread in the Steam forums, the current loot system encourages experimenting with different builds instead of only getting loot for the character you’re playing. That makes GDs loot system one of the most interesting, encouraging and rewarding ones I’ve ever seen in an ARPG (and I did play them all). Legendaries are not supposed to be trash or instant-dismantle-items like in Diablo 3s loot 2.0. Which you obviously find superior. That’s totally fine, but please understand that not everybody has the same preference and don’t say GDs loot system is “objectively bad”. Because it really isn’t.

Attribute and mastery respec: Maybe being able to respec the last 3-5 attribute points would be ok, or the last tier of mastery points (so you could go back one tier). But I’m definitely against removing all mastery points and therefore allowing class reselection.

Enchanting: Sounds nice to be able to change ONE affix (not more). That’s one of the few features of D3 I like.

HC: You still have to be able to run away and open a rift gate. Second life passives, or even more circuit-breakers to classes other than Soldier, would easily solve the problem of spike damage and imbalances (I’m looking at you Loxmere the Nightmage and Mad Queen).

Attribute respec: THis should already be in the game if there are requirements to wear gear. Mastery respec should also be available, maybe just until the last point to prevent you from changing your hybrid class. Again, it is counter-experimenting-with-your-build.

Loot: I don’t even know what to say. If you think throwing away 99% of the loot drops is acceptable, then I will never change your mind about it, especially if you’ve never experienced something better. And nobody is advocating that all drops should be for your hybrid classes. You would still get plenty of drops for other characters. But it would make those Rare, Epic and Legendary drops far less frustrating and you wouldn’t have to hoard and mule them for other characters, to trudge though the game 3 times again with a new toon.

I honestly thought it would be a non-issue getting people on my side, but this is ridiculous. It’s like you want to get punished by an archaic unrewarding loot system repeatedly, instead of demanding for something better.

Well in D3 you throw away/dismantle 99% of all legendaries you find because you found it 100 times already in the past week with even crappier rolls. The stuff you really want you get from Kadala. I keep a lot more of the loot I find in GD, especially rare and legendary stuff. At least it is still a sensation to find a legendary, whereas in D3 legendary drops are so frequent you only see them as yet another forgotten soul drop.

If you’re referring to D3 as “something better”, I played around 800 hours of it, about 2/3 of that with loot 2.0. I don’t hate it obviously. It’s just that after playing GD, I found D3 to be vastly inferior for my personal taste. As you would say, I “experienced something better”.

As I already said: The ones punishment is the other ones pleasure. Please just try to understand that not everybody prefers the same things as you do. If everybody would see it like you, don’t you think your arguments would have made it to the developers ears earlier? :wink:

Again: I respect your preference and that you like other loot systems more. And I expect you to show me (and everybody who does have a deviating opinion) the same courtesy.

Well, man, that’s just opinion.

Your kind of game would be mindnumbingly boring for me.

But i won’t go on the D3 forum and make a large post why i think loot 2.0 is crap and the whole respeccing system is dumb, and then expect the D3 community to march into my camp with banners flying.

Because that would be just my opinion.

You also wouldn’t march into their forum and tell them how uninformed they are and how “wrong” they are for not agreeing with your subjective opinion and then get defensive when people point out what you’re doing.

You also wouldn’t assume authority and lecture or scold people on their forum on what is best for a game you didn’t design which is purposefully NOT like Diablo 3.

You would also probably actually read the response from people who are objectively trying to help you see how the loot system for Grim Dawn works for its design and not just tell them they’re incorrect (even though that’s just your opinion).

But that’s none of my business. sips tea

Please stop attacking me and putting words into my mouth and be more constructive and address the issues.

If for some reason you enjoy unrewarding loot in a loot-based game, then state so with reasons why, that haven’t been addressed already.

So I’m not allowed to provide feedback on the GD forums?

You are not allowed to post feedback on the Blizz forums?

Since when? Maybe your inflammatory tone got you into trouble, who knows?

First of all, to get to the stage where you throw away 99% of legendaries, means you already have almost BIS gear that actually dropped for you.

This is currently pretty much impossible in GD. I know it should be hard, but certainly not impossible. Nevermind the fact that the game is campaign-driven and has no end-game, meaning you need some good drops for at least your class during your playthrough.

You don’t get it. You aren’t being “attacked” just because you don’t like what you’re reading here, my friend. I am telling you, your attitude is not constructive. Joining a forum, telling people they are uninformed for disagreeing with your opinion and then being called out on it is not being attacked. You don’t know what a real attack is, yet, I assure you. The fact that people LIKE this loot system (though I just want better legendary drop rates across the board) does not make them:

Backwards, uninformed, wrong, archaic, or stupid, or dumb.

You are making aggressive and rude, condescending claims in your posts and feedback and then throwing up your hands and playing victim when someone calls you out on it, and it’s definitely not just me doing it.

Strawmen galore, never said any of those things about people.

You seem not to comprehend that we are talking about issues in the game, not the developers personally, and most of all not the gamers.

You have clearly taken offense by association, meaning because you are a fan of the game, any criticism should be shot down because it makes you seem dumber.

I can only hope you will improve upon this at some point, and finally provide something constructive to the thread other than personal attacks, without addressing any of the issues (yet again).

Your wasting your time mate. He’s comparing this gem to game which is a stain on an entire series on the entire series.

Also, OP you’re feedback is bound to cause flame wars. And mind you very little of the arguments would be constructive. Reason being very simple, you’re way communicating your opinion. But i don’t blame you, euphemism is a trait not many are able to acquire.

The guy with the weird pic is right, you aren’t being attacked (not yet) atleast. About 90% people are avoiding this. There are problems in the game and none of us are backward fanboys who deny that, heck check the patches/misadventures. You’ll find the people who defend the game screaming at the developers for reasons of their own.
But here’s the thing, many of the problems you stated aren’t really problems. They seem so to you because knowingly or unknowingly your judgement of this game is being carried out while having Blizzard’s game inside your head. Diablo 3 is your “bar”.

I don’t know how you perceive your opinion to be objective because it’s far from it.

I am intentionally avoiding going into details mainly because I can be pretty verbal in the spur of the moment. and also because a part of me would really love to burn down Blizzard for destroying Diablo and Warcraft seemingly permanently.

Anyways, this is probably the only contribution i’m going to make to this thread. Should it turn into a shit-storm then the dev/mods would happily lock it

Maybe, who knows. :wink:

I simply don’t see any point in giving feedback like:

“I don’t like basic design decision a,b,c plz change to basic design decision x,y,z.”

That’s all i could do, if i posted feedback on the D3 forum. I guess, it will be rather hard to convince the d3 audience and devs, that a littlebit of grind will make the rewards feel more rewarding, that itemisation should be deep and complex and that a character, that cannot be changed, will receive more love and dedication from the player.

Coz, well, that’s just my opinion. They decided to make another game, and some people seem to like it, so who am i to judge?

It wasn’t a straw man.

And your reply just seemed to prove his point.

I’m going to go now before i decide to burn down Irvine

I think the OP may prefer to use this section of the forum, where only us and the moderators can see your posts.
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34

I can only think of one game with a “modern” loot system, and it has its own share of pros and cons. You clearly prefer smart loot, but that does not mean that there aren’t those who prefer alternatives.

A reminder for the community: