[Feedback] Rancor needs a nerf - but it needs to be done carefully

[Rhylthar]

It just happens to be a bleed weapon as well.

Well, I would name it like this:
Rancor is mostly a Bleeding Weapon with (strong) support for Piercing Damage.
Nadaan´s Reach is mostly a Piercing Weapon with (mediocre) support for Bleeding Damage.

[banana_peel]

Of course it’s not in the current state. I’m just saying that attack speed argument doesn’t work here. Pierce lacks many things but what it doesn’t lack is attack speed.

[sir_spanksalot]

You mean attack speed. Because it lacks casting speed.

EDIT: Sorry. Misread your statement

[banana_peel]

I’ll get home and try to make smth happen with Savagery Trickster, just for the kicks. See how far below is pierce on it.

[Norzan]

Well, I would name it like this:
Rancor is mostly a Bleeding Weapon with (strong) support for Piercing Damage.
Nadaan´s Reach is mostly a Piercing Weapon with (mediocre) support for Bleeding Damage.

Those are the definitions i use as well. They are both Bleed/Pierce weapons, one is just more biased towards bleed and the other towards pierce.

[sir_spanksalot]

Well, I would name it like this:
Rancor is mostly a Bleeding Weapon with (strong) support for Piercing Damage.
Nadaan´s Reach is mostly a Piercing Weapon with (mediocre) support for Bleeding Damage.

Those are the definitions i use as well. They are both Bleed/Pierce weapons, they are just more biased towards one damage type.

How have I said anything which contradicts this?

[Norzan]

How have I said anything which contradicts this?

But it isn’t meant to be a pierce weapon.

The implication i get from this is that the weapon is not meant for pierce in any capacity.

[Rhylthar]

Those are the definitions i use as well. They are both Bleed/Pierce weapons, one is just more biased towards bleed and the other towards pierce.

With just one difference:
On Rancor, Pierce supports Bleeding with giving ADctH.
On Nadaan´s Reach, Bleeding…is there. 2H-Pierce/Bleed Trickster with this weapon won´t work very well (I think).

[sir_spanksalot]

Please don’t quote me out of context.

But it isn’t meant to be a pierce weapon. Pierce is at best secondary damage.

I’m not disagreeing with you that it can’t be used as a pierce weapon, I’m saying that it would be suboptimal to use it in that manner outside of spam PB.

Plenty of sets support 2 damage types, but that doesn’t mean it is meant to perform at an equal level for both.

Sets always tend to lean towards one damage type more than the other.

Rancor’s base WD is garbage. What it lacks in flat damage it more than compensates for with bleed.

In other words, it is first and foremost meant to be a bleed-based weapon, not a pierce weapon. This is evident in the flurry of rancor specs @rhylthar have done up using bloodragers; and the fact that there have been no pierce builds which use rancor outside of spam PB (i.e. flat damage is simply too low, and you’ll lack any other significant means of dealing damage)

I mean…if rhylthar is calling his builds using rancor BLEEDING builds, it is pretty much self-evident that pierce damage is a happy bonus.

It is NOT a double damage type build, nor can rancor be used predominantly for its pierce damage outside of spam PB

[Nery]

Imo bleeding/pierce hybrid Trickster is always tempting idea but the question is, could you keep a balance or you’re gonna steer hard in one direction?

[Norzan]

Really not quoting you out of context. You are giving conflicting statements. Saying that something is a secondary damage (meaning the item is for that damage type, even if it’s secondary) and saying that it’s not even meant for that damage in the first place are conflicting statements.

[sir_spanksalot]

Am I now? Is dark one’s known as an acid set? A vitality set? Or acid/vit set?

What about justice set? Is it a fire set? Or a physical set?

Dark flame AAR…chaos? Vit? or both?

[Rhylthar]

Steer. Or do you know a set which supports both equally? I don´t (but would do I know outside of Bloodrager ).

Devotions would be the same problem. For Bleeding, you go South, for Piercing East. Doesn´t mix very good.

[sir_spanksalot]

Steer. Or do you know a set which supports both equally? I don´t (but would do I know outside of Bloodrager ).

Devotions would be the same problem. For Bleeding, you go South, for Piercing East. Doesn´t mix very good.

Exactly this. Just because an item provides strong support to 2 damage type, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a primary damage/secondary damage type.

Sure. Look at rancor in isolation and it seems like a pretty ok-ish pierce weapon.

But when you look at the big picture, which you are failing to do, it immediately becomes apparent that it’s first and foremost a bleed weapon

[Norzan]

Am I now? Is dark one’s known as an acid set? A vitality set? Or acid/vit set?

It’s primarly used for vitality, it can be used for acid. Makes it an acid set as well.

What about justice set? Is it a fire set? Or a physical set?

Fire is converting physical, while Rancor isn’t converting pierce to anything else. Not the same.

Dark flame AAR…chaos? Vit? or both?

Sloppily i might add, still primarly chaos with some vitality. It’s still part vitality.

[sir_spanksalot]

Fire is converting physical, while Rancor isn’t converting pierce to anything else. Not the same.

Lol. What if I used beronath reforged + skullbreaker? So it’s a physical set now?

Again norzan, dual damage types allow for build diversity, but in no way shape or form does it mean that the core design of the weapon isn’t heavily biased towards one damage type.

[Nery]

Steer. Or do you know a set which supports both equally?

SR set

But SR set will lack offensively compared to Bloodrager. And will not give you increased bleeding duration, so meh.

[mad_lee]

Does your build have any room for improving defenses? Because in its current form obscene dmg is the only thing holding it together and 20% reduction will kill it.

What do you think about 25% modifier instead of 50% plus 15% enemy dmg reduction to PB on Rancor?

I have played this build and I have no idea how Spanks is managing naked runs in it. It’s uber squishy. Of course I like to facetank everything, but if you compare it to my Demonslayer Dervish it’s night and day in terms of tankiness. So yeah, it’s one weapon and its broken damage that carries the build. On the other hand, you can always make an unkillable version that is 30-40 seconds slower in Shattered set, like @Firozo did in his original build.

[sir_spanksalot]

Spanks is managing naked runs in it.

coz daz how i do eeeeet.

#hatersgunnahate #mad"L2P"lee

[Rhylthar]

I have to ask this or I will break my head thinking about the whole evening:
RR for Pierce is hard to get and the amount of the builds (Blademaster, etc.) is much less than for other Damage types (excluding Physical)?