[Feedback] Spam version of Blackwater Cocktail

[lord_mayak]

Yes, I used it on a Turrion’s lightning retal Commando. I’m not a Crucible player, but it worked well enough in SR. (at least as far as SR 65-66, need to test it further)

[Nery]

THAT is a possible solution for sure. have you done any testing with this? I know the chinese players love their ToL, but we are a bit more DPS orientated here in the forum.

Is the DPS loss worth it the defensive gain/utility?

ToL is smooth but your IK build will have crumbs for DA

For other gear perhaps can work better. I have tried Tree on Stun Jacks build for example.

[Norzan]

ToL is smooth but your IK build will have crumbs for DA

That’s odd because ToL path gives a lot of DA. OA is the actual issue of going heavy on blue.

And to be fair, rank 22 BWC has 250 OA shred.

[sir_spanksalot]

would love to see some videos if you happen to decide to record them. ToL is something we should really consider using more here

you could always snag LoE as well which supports fire damage decently well.

the another thing is that BWC-dedicated items have little support of Inquisitor, so I can’t seat in 22/12 Seal, e.g., and spam BWC, like I do with Stun jacks.

Not that I’m douubting you, but any chance for a GT?

On a somewhat tangential note, IMO seal isn’t worth investing in unless you can get it past 16/12

That’s odd because ToL path gives a lot of DA. OA is the actual issue of going heavy on blue.

And to be fair, rank 22 BWC has 250 OA shred.

i think nery means OA

[mad_lee]

Tree of Life’s Healing Rain helps with both problems. (Yes, I know it’s out of the way for most BWC builds)

There are couple problems with Tree of Life. First, healing part won’t really help BWC spammers in endgame, because they are very fragile due to lack of defensive stats/adtch/good staying power. Second, it’s SO out of the way for a Fire/Burn build that going for it in Devotions defeats the idea of a Fire/Burn build altogether.

Yes, I used it on a Turrion’s lightning retal Commando. I’m not a Crucible player, but it worked well enough in SR. (at least as far as SR 65-66, need to test it further)

That’s almost not a spam bwc build, mate, since you are not soft-capping/overcapping any nods, so your energy consumption is not that high and you are using Retaliation/Physical devotion map, so you don’t need Ulzuin’s Torch and other Fire stuff.

That’s odd because ToL path gives a lot of DA. OA is the actual issue of going heavy on blue.

And to be fair, rank 22 BWC has 250 OA shred.

There is also an issue that all Fire devotions are red/green. And 250 OA shred is nice, but doesn’t help that much, trust me.

[sir_spanksalot]

There are couple problems with Tree of Life. First, healing part won’t really help BWC spammers in endgame, because they are very fragile due to lack of defensive stats/adtch/good staying power. Second, it’s SO out of the way for a Fire/Burn build that going for it in Devotions defeats the idea of a Fire/Burn build altogether.

TBH, I’ve seen ToL, GB, and vindictive flame conduit carry a build defensively with 22/12 vindictive flames + BoD

[Nery]

ToL is smooth but your IK build will have crumbs for DA

That’s odd because ToL path gives a lot of DA. OA is the actual issue of going heavy on blue.

And to be fair, rank 22 BWC has 250 OA shred.

Oops, OA yes. Blue road have Tower and such for DA. Also you can pick Aeon for defense reset like Ascension or Mirror.

[afanasenkov26]

here’s what I’ve come up with https://www.grimtools.com/calc/r2B1dnkN
tbh, the spec is unpolished

EDIT: changed the pants.

[sir_spanksalot]

what am i? A school teacher about to shame you in front of the class?

Thanks for sharing, and for obliging me <3

@afanasenkov26: what might be helpful here is to try changing rings. I think you want to focus more on ignition and artifact handling rather than RoK because you can’t convert the phys dmg on it.

maybe reign of ice and fire? casting speed, crit damage, craftable, OA, and energy sustain

might be worth trying

[mad_lee]

TBH, I’ve seen ToL, GB, and vindictive flame conduit carry a build defensively with 22/12 vindictive flames + BoD

All of those things are something that for example IK BWC spammer can’t afford, unless you are ok with watered down version of the build with no damage.

[lord_mayak]

That’s almost not a spam bwc build, mate, since you are not soft-capping/overcapping any nods, so your energy consumption is not that high and you are using Retaliation/Physical devotion map, so you don’t need Ulzuin’s Torch and other Fire stuff.

I did softcap BWC, and Agonizing Flames, actually. Also, it’s a Commando. So, no inherent cost reduction or energy management skills.

[sir_spanksalot]

is this similar to john’s retal BWC spammer?

[lord_mayak]

That build is what prompted me to test this one, yes. I wanted to see if it was just Beronath that made it so strong, or if there was more to it than that. I’ve tried several Turrion’s builds since the subject came up in one of Doom’s threads months ago (whether the retal to attack on it is in balance).

Here’s where the build is at right now, keep in mind it’s still being tweaked:
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eZP5DOBN

[sir_spanksalot]

interesting… I’m going to PM you so I don’t derail this thread

[mad_lee]

Here’s where the build is at right now, keep in mind it’s still being tweaked:
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eZP5DOBN

I still can’t believe Zantai didn’t nerf RTA value on Turrion shield. How is shit like that still in the game?

Nice build by the way. You could definitely use new retal rings or Judicators, not sure why you are using those rings (other than cast speed and resists).

If you tweak it it would probably do another 4:30 Crucible record.

[hammyhamster1]

Here’s where the build is at right now, keep in mind it’s still being tweaked:
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eZP5DOBN

That`s an impressive BWC lit retaliation.! But perhaps it is also a statement on the current status of lightning damage and itemization…

Edit:

I should post an older theorycrafted pyro chaos Turion BWC spammer for comparison (uses the Jo3 set): chaos bwc retal spam. Not tested so it might have some holes in it (and Guardian could possibly be better than Bat).

It`s not so far below in terms of damage - after a look- but I feel lightning is generally overdone in GD.

[lord_mayak]

Well, I did make a thread asking about it a while back, people seemed to think it was alright then.
But of course opinions will change as builds are made and tested, that’s to be expected.

As for the rings, yeah, cast speed, resists, flat energy regen. The elemental damage boost doesn’t mean much for a retal build, but it’s a little bit of an extra bonus.

[ya1]

adding 30-40% weapon damage mods to relevant items like IK set and Mark of Burning Shadows.

Lol…how do you convince yourself you know so much more about endgame and then suggest shit like this with a straight face…

Correct me if I’m wrong but 16% retal added on Turrion’s Reprisal is way more than casters can ever get on 30% wpn dmg…

[sir_spanksalot]

touche, no adcth though

[Zantai]

Correct me if I’m wrong but 16% retal added on Turrion’s Reprisal is way more than casters can ever get on 30% wpn dmg…

Use that big endgame expert brain of yours and figure it out.