not killed…
so another nonsense exaggeration post - “toned down did not invalidate your farming”… - unless you live in the realm of only peakest version existing is the only valid version existing…
the point is that not only doesn’t happen like people think it does
but let alone the way/to the degree they think either…
"as you can see by other people’s post"addressing changelogs…
“nerfs” does not equate to killed, it’s so much so it’s a darn giant meme that people massively overreact to number changes in patch notes without actually understanding them, or in many cases even playing them or adjusting them…
And it causes exaggerations just like this one you made…
More so because most players wont be aware of a regular builds “busted” performance at time of discovery; unless they solely discover the game by other people’s vids. In which case you’re again just spoiling yourself of things they aren’t participating in.
and can remain so after being toned down; unless you live in a world where only peak busted stated equates to the only point of fun
In which case any game with any sense of balancing is not for you, whether it’s D2 or Dark souls… (because despite claims those games had also patches that changed some stuff)
edit.
this and this
really seems to be the crux of the flaws in 99% of issues people have with “contentious”/treasonous feedback, patch notes and “nerfs”/#deadbuilds#NoFunAllowedBecauseZantaiLovesNerfs&TearsMore
and it’s a darn shame people can’t shake that off, as it would likely deflate a large proportion of outrage and misgivings…
Bingo! I’ve seen this so many times over the past 10 years. I lost count to how many people expressed this very thought on forums, reddit, live streams.
But I guess devs don’t care about the end user. The ego and vanity to enforce their vision of what’s right is bigger and more important than what most players actually want. And they would bash anyone trying to use logic and reason. They bash me (just because I dare to convey the message) as if I personally care about their nerfs. I’m a dev and modder myself. It takes me exactly 5 min to identify and revert those changes if I want. But the average Joe always gets shafted. And that’s the sad part. And these people can’t see it, zilch.
They somehow still can’t grasp the most basic sequence when it comes to the majority of players. It almost always goes like this:
“Hi, I’m new to the game. What’s the strong melee/range/caster/tank/etc build in this game right now?”
“Wow this Zakul/Onslaught/Storm Spread/etc build looks so good! Ima go play, thank you for the guide!”
“Excuse me, is this build dead now or what? What a bummer…”
I’ve seen too many quit at this point.
The devs just don’t get it that just because the vast majority of players never complete the game, it doesn’t mean they don’t wanna play a strong build!
And on the flip side, if the devs know that most players never complete the game, why not put more effort into making early game more balanced?
Or do they actually think that for a newbie it doesn’t matter whether to suffer leveling via cadence / callidor tempest or erase the entire screen with WoP or oneshot bosses with nades? Do they really think this is the optimal balance that beginners should face?
Any businessman would immediately focus on the main customer base and try making their experience better wherever possible. Instead, we are getting into pointless “endgame” balance arguments.
@Devs
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand your casual player mindset. Join Rekt stream and see how excited is everyone about that “broken” runekeeper action. Then join during cadence leveling and see all you need to know about GD balance.
I feel it was being made but people repeating themselves over and over and getting nowhere was becoming quite a miserable experience…while being drowned out by “you don’t matter” vitriol.
Wrong question. This situation isn’t in a vacuum. History is our greatest teacher.
Yeah they don’t have to go into any one specific thread to state that. It’s in the very thread you referenced, IIRC. So someone outside of that circle is gonna see it and, well, word of mouth from there.
Almost every post I have ever made on this topic has stated this but I guess I’m a “nobody” it gets ignored? Typical actually. Just like I said leveling would receive backlash with the FoA changes + reflect dmg concerns/issues.
Can’t argue this, but we can’t deny the fact that a certain group is feeding their ideas while pushing out everyone else. Thats the issue. The Morg set changes, fine but there could at least have been options made to get the removed conversion from other sources that didn’t require very specific set ups. Thats a very reasonable request and has been done by all players when something is changed…especially when there are people in the thread that were asking not do this. I can point to SoC spam as a way Crate heard players and responded in a very favorable way.
True for most specs. They only lost a step but that step is usually enough to make people unhappy, well certain ones. If my builds lose a step, I adjust. But when they cease to exist in a specific form (not killed) well I think it’s fair to be sad about it.
Pretty much sums up the tone of the situation for me. I don’t think it’s worth trying to steer things in an alternative direction going forward.
Exactly, it’s called casual player killer. That’s the factor that, if addressed properly, could encourage more players to stick around, spread the word and bring their friends over to GD instead of saying “it was too slow, tedious, and boring”.
Isn’t it telling how none of the people pushing this ‘builds killed by nerfs’ narrative have provided any specific grimtools examples/gameplay comparisons whatsoever in a topic 85 comments long
Didn’t realize Grimtools could create a build from the mind of someone that doesn’t exist anywhere on any computer because it got deleted. If that is the case then the technology involved in such a feat should be patented post haste because I can think of a lot of practical real world uses for such a thing that go far far beyond helping out with a game.
yes we can; because you can take part in it and feed counter data, the issue is people don’t, and what those same people keep ignoring is that Z responds to actual data over everything; show XY to get your point across. just posting a GT and “i feel” doesn’t do the same as a video showcasing metrics - not to mention most don’t even bother with the former let alone the latter. For better or worse, “the toxic group” provides actual data (in most cases), and are even outright rejected when they don’t, because Z wont just take feel and veteran experience at face value each buff/nerf (much to said toxic gang veterancy experience dismissal gripe)
which not only didn’t happen from being nerf asked, it was outright requested against, - and explicitly happened because entire set redesign approach and cold SS was getting a dedicated set; Zakull
entirely the opposite, every darn time, “dead builds meme”; so much so you’ve seen it brought up in this very thread too, more than once with nonsense examples…
Not talking about me. I love Grimtools. But I didn’t even know about it until I had been playing the game for 6 or more months. And even then I didn’t go so far as to upload/save my builds there. I have personally never deleted any of my builds. I actually do not know how Grimtools handles the situation where equipment gets changed. For example a few years ago the belt Mythical Nosferratis was changed to do some damage conversion. Prior to that the belt was used for a lot of builds until the conversion pretty much rendered those builds not nearly as potent. How would Grimtools represent such a build now? I kind of figure that it would show the belt with the conversion rather than showing the belt as it was at the time.
It’s like they don’t want their builds to be compensated if Zantai happens to overnerf them. Can’t exactly do anything if you don’t even what you need to do.
Son you miss the point here - all your points are not speaking for majority of every day players!
The mere fact that you try to teach me what i perceive is “fun” is absurd and no point in continuing a fruitless discussion.
I am merely sharing the opinion of a random GD fan and how all the cycle of videos based on gdstash ideal builds could lead to unneeded over reaction.
again, you’re entirely mixing up what GDstashed “ideal” builds means or does…
“it doesn’t mean what you think”… all it does is showcase an item combination, potentially, sooner than otherwise might would be posted.
It’s the combination output/performance itself that’s deemed not permissible by devs, because they care about semi balance… - GDS itself is not breaking the build or metrics
^and you do not need GDS to even do this, the game already has such functions built in as it’s entirely modable and you can go into custom game and create it with a lil more hassle than GDS interface click simplification. Dev console commands outright exists for you to try stuff on, even if you dont’ want to use actual mods
so yes, either you only think “busted” stuff is fun; or you don’t have an issue when stuff is toned down, because changelogs don’t have that huge of an impact on the actual build in general that it voids it still being strong, and thus plenty capable in casual player hands to have fun with (i know because i’m a casual pilot)
The best counter example i could ever get to highlight this is when you say bring up Belgo of all things… which was never that harshly nerfed, let alone killed, and never stopped being fun… - other stuff just got buffed way more from direct feedback requests increasing a power “disparity”, which doesn’t detract from Belgo fun, unless again you only consider peak power valid as “fun”
Dude, just name them. We had 3 builds total brought up - some retal, Morgo infiltrator and Belgo BM.
I can get the notion of “build breaking” from that time Beronath and Blood orb started giving mandatory conversion buffs. But Belgo still works exactly as it did all those years, it’s not a dead build. It can clear Ascendant, high Crucible and high SR. It’s that much better now with pots and ascension.
Then again, I don’t share the idiotic idea of the OP of what “viable” build is.
- unless you live in the realm of only peakest version existing is the only valid version existing…
