Got the game 2 weeks ago and i had some fun with the min-maxing. Today I wanted to build a new because hero of many reasons like stash full of blue’s, some items that can make a build etc. I started a new hero and i was surprised to find out that the fact that i already finished the game on all 3 difficulties I have no helpful incentive to make a new hero, cause the XP grind will be just as long, so I stopped playing. The point of this topic is the following:
If devs see this thread pls think about some of the following suggestions:
Please add some stuff to make leveling new heroes faster the second time. There are so many ways to do this. You pick one. I like to go for item grinding, but I will never be able to go for XP grinding, mindless grinding to increase a number. The first time is ok to learn the game, learn the lore, second time in the second difficulty level it already starts to get boring , 3’rd time in the same content in the third difficulty level, is boring as f#, but i can take it, since I end up in the late part of the game, but the 4’th time starting from scratch is just painful, not for me.
Remove the stash limit. After-all this is a game about loot in the end, so let me be a loot hoarder without the need for third party software or file tempering . I don’t get what devs perceive as constructive, to force me to waste time min-maxing my stash items instead of playing the game, or even force me to throw stuff cause I have no more space in the stash. Diablo 3 does the same, and this made me so mad last season that i actually quit playing. And if the Diablo devs could use the fact that items are stored on the servers as a very lame excuse (don’t know if they did but i don’t see any better excuse then this), for grim dawn items are stored on my disk. Also, from a developing perspective, should be really easy to remove that limit. So … please do it.
Make the iron available on account instead of hero. You could argue anything to not do this, but I don’t think any argument will hold. The economy of the game is not that solid, and even if it was a solid economy like path of exile, that will only make it event better to share the currency on account level. Also this together with other design decisions can fix the first suggestion.
You have a good game, don’t let useless time wasting design decisions ruin it, just to forcefully inflate the time spent in game, for those players who can take the pain. You should know that most of your customer will not have the time/will to level more the 1 maybe 2 heroes like this, since there will always be other games to switch to.
Well that was a long one. Don’t think anyone will read it all but if you read this, sorry if you think i wasted your time
I have very little opinion on 1 and 3, especially since on the first I’ve played through Titan Quest, Diablo, Torchlight 1/2, and other such ARPGs start to finish more times than I can count.
Farming iron is easy - I mean don’t pick yellows just pick whatever else and you easily have 1m iron by the time you finish ultimate, as long as you didn’t craft a lot.
The only time I found leveling a bit hard was in Elite, but it wasn’t a major deal. In Ultimate it’s justified, you’re supposed to reach level 85 somewhere in Act 2/3. Otherwise it’s fairly easy - point to note, quests give a lot of exp, do every quest possible, don’t just grind and expect levels to come out of thin air.
There is a fair amount of +exp gear in the game if you can find it. I have a set that gets me up around 33% or so, I can equip it all by the time I hit 30, but I have never been able to tell if it changes quest exp or just monster exp.
Grinding in these games and this genre is par for the course, complaining about it is like complaining about blocks in Tetris. In this game/genre you’re always grinding (whether you realise it or not) for the next item, for the next portal, for the next level, for the next quest, for the next skill acquisition.
Lots of ways to speed up taking a second or more character through the game again, twinking him with items from your first character that you grinded for. Play MP and ask someone to help you rush through the game. When the modding tools are released tweak the game to your hearts content.
I would suggest that maybe this genre of game is not your cup of tea…
They’ve already implemented some anti grind measures for New characters. The reputation scrolls you can buy to bypass the bounty grind. If they add exp pots to the highest reputation rank, that could work. But in all honesty they should be capped at level 50, any level above 50 has to be earned.
There are already three utilities for it, not to mention just manually playing around with stash files. As soon as the mod tools are released people will begin working on stash expanders.
Surely it would make more sense for Crate to address this one at this point rather than leaving it to the community and 3rd party software/mods.
I was sure that someone will bring this up, but grinding to increase DPS is actually grinding for gear, and gear can be build defining, change the way you play the game, the way you use your skills. Gear grinding is the thing that keeps us playing a game like this. Xp grinding is just something that, from the second hero onward, is just keeping us from getting near end game and again starting to get gear to define builds etc.
Exactly my point. Why should I be forced to use a third party software to get something that makes sense to be in the game, and I don’t see any constructive reason to hot have it.
Great idea with the xp pots, and with the cap. After level 50 the fun start, when good items start to drop. Just a few things like this can be a great incentive to ppl leveling new heroes. If it was just for me, something like the diablo 3 gem that basically makes you do 1-60 in 20 min will be great. If others like to grind xp, fine by me, this is not a competition, so the should not care if i prefer to level faster. But i’m pretty sure that everyone that added a comment to this post arguing that xp grind is good will use this mechanics to level faster.
Thanks to everyone who took the time answer my post.
I hope they fix some of this quality of life issues. Cause I can see great potential in this game.
Wow! Why water down intended mechanics of a game that is and will be moddable? Download a lvl 85 charcter or create it with a trainer and pe proud on it. …useless time wasting design decisions… i can’t take it anymore. There is another game that is called Sacred 3 -i think it can be the perfect game for you.
Really, please, next question would be for a little ingameshop with microtransaction to skip playing the game :rolleyes:
LOL. You can’t take it anymore :D. I’m sorry, can’t help you with your rage :). Glad you ware able to understand what i was saying, misconstructions was the subliminal message in my post :rolleyes::D.
How will it affect you if the add lets say, some components with +xp for instance that you can get at max level for your new heroes, or more stash tabs? Simple, it just won’t.
Basically you are getting mad for something that will not affect your game play if you just ignore it, but will improve mine. So … you are getting mad that someone else may be able to have more fun … human behavior at its best right there
If you prefer it like this, that is ok. I don’t what the game to change. As I said in the above message. If the add stuff like item or components that increase xp gain, and that can only be acquired from the end game so you have to at least go once start to end in the normal speed, and after that you will have the option to use this items or not. They can even add some downside to this items, like make then comparably weaker to other items of that level.
I am not sure that the method used in Diablo 3 to speed level a low level party member up to level 70 in around 4 rift runs and a few minutes is relevant in GD. In D3 the leveler does not even look at skills points or anything until he is at lvl 70. Once he is there he is only interested 2 or 3 popular settings anyway.
The mechanics in Grim Dawn do not work this way and suddenly speed leveling a character to a higher level will miss out on the build experience of testing, reassigning skills etc. Items in D3 are also very specific. ie. A level 69 item in D3 is substantially weaker that a level 70 item. In Grim Dawn this is not the case as you can find a level 20 item that you can use up to way high levels.
I admit I do speed level my D3 characters in group play as this is the nature of the game. ie. Skip any low level stuff as only 1 or 2 set builds are going to be valid anyway and run from there. D3 has become a speed freak rush and has lost the build and character development that was once it’s roots. I still play the game as it has some appeal with it’s flashy combat and it’s simplistic ease of play, but it has lost it’s complexity and richness and can become boring.
Grim Dawn has bought all this back and the concept of speed leveling to level 70 in a few minutes is absurd in this game. The game is designed to be playable and re-playable. You start a new build from scratch, explore all it’s possibilities and expand from there from level 1. If you want to start at level 70 and skip all this gameplay enjoyment then Diablo 3 is probably a better game for you.
I have read posts earlier of guys regretting the second mastery they chose. If you don’t like it, delete the character or play like most of us do and try to find skills that make it work. It is a game and NOT a speed run to get a superman. You will find endless combinations and items in leveling a new character from scratch that you had not thought of.
As referenced on the site there are many 3rd party tools to change a characters level and stats if you want to do that, but in my opinion you are losing a huge gaming experience for the sake of a speed rush.
I have played EVERY single combination of characters in the old Titan Quest and enjoyed ALL of the builds, even if the combos of some did not meet my expectations the game play experience was rewarding and most of all - FUN.
In my references to diablo 3 system i was not talking about the the party speed run, i don’t enjoy doing that even if my friend stress me about it all the time. I was talking about the XP gem from greater rift that you had to do 7-9 GR to level it for your new hero, and the fact that you can add a high quality xp red gem in your helmet to that you had to invest into making that high level gem, and you can remove level requirement from lvl 70 items also an other 7-9 GR to level a new xp gem for each item, to also lvl faster. All this requires some time spend in high lvl content where is fun, to reduce the time in low level content where is not that fun. And also is just optional, nobody forces you to do it, if you enjoy the slower pace of leveling. As i mentioned in previous posts i don’t want the game to change, just for some options to improve the experience for a larger group of players. That is all. Anyone i think i made my point for those willing to listen. For the next few months i will go back to PoE. Maybe after this league i will get back into Grim Dawn and some changes ware made. If not, i guess there will always be other options.
PS: I also did enjoy titan quest for his time, but this is not that time anymore, game evolve and so do expectation, at least for some customers.
A topic near and dear to my heart. I happen to agree with the OP.
It isn’t reasonable, in 2016, to expect players to level up every single class/multiclass from scratch. I know a lot of folks like it, but it just isn’t reasonable. Maybe it was all the rage back in 2001, but times change and technology gets better. There isn’t enough time. Then add in the fact you might have to do it for a new build because the cost has become too prohibitive on your other char!
How long does it take to get a char to 84? I’m guessing for the average person around 100 to 50 hours, perfectly reasonable for a game, let’s just say 50. But there are 11 class combos, IIRC, so if someone wanted to play each class to 84 that’s 550 hours of game play. 550 hours! That is not an insignificant amount of time by any means.
Then add in the time for leveling up again for a new build and you start to see the point of the OP, there just isn’t enough time.
The solution? Well, I’ll take a page from a little known but very forward thinking MMORPG, Tabula Rasa. In that game, you could pick a class, and at a certain point, clone yourself. That way, if you didn’t like the multiclass you chose, you could go back to your cloned char and take the other path. This would work very nicely in GD. Get a Demo to 40 or so, clone him, and then choose your other class. No need to do the entire grind over again. The system of course, could be tweaked in numerous ways.
Totally off topic, but another thing I’d like seen brought in from Tabula Rasa is automatic looting. It isn’t 2001 anymore, I shouldn’t have to frantically click my mouse to loot. Just let me walk over the items, just like money and tonic and have them automatically go to my stash. Or let me choose to have all yellows go to my stash so I can savor the clicking on blues, greens and purples. Or any combination.
I registered just to reply to this; longtime lurker though.
If this game had immediate full re-class and fast leveling I would have stopped 250 hours ago. The only absolute reason I continue to play is to craft a build, and see how that build plays out over the leveling curve and endgame. Grinding gear inherently as the sole content driver is boring because as a player you have no control over what drops. What do I have control over? my build, and this type of game gives you ownership over crafting your build and growing it over the number of hours it takes to reach 85. If you don’t enjoy these types of things then there are many other ARPGs or MMORPGs that subscribe to the game starts at max level mantra.
The only thing that I find annoying is the limited storage. I can mess with my save files, I can create mules, I can use 3rd party software - but why go trough all the trouble… alt tabbing, closing and restarting the game when I just wanna kill stuff instead. So I play with what storage was given - personal bank and 4 transfer tabs.
When I just started playing I did level a few toons to 50 and already found my stash filled with potential greens/blues I would use on any other build… and then the purples started to drop and empowered epics… Vendoring or giving items away to friends became a daily thing for me. What this also did is discourage me from leveling any new toons… let’s just say running veteran again and again is, well, painful. I could use the low level epics to speed trough veteran but I tend to value and keep higher level items more…
So from my point of view, the game is conflicting with itself. You wanna try different builds, but running veteran becomes dull really fast. You want to use those low lv items to reach elite faster but you don’t have any space to keep them.
This is an offline single player game, what is the design logic to limit our storage space? :D:eek:
grinding to increase DPS is actually grinding for gear
that was precisely my point
and gear can be build defining, change the way you play the game, the way you use your skills. Gear grinding is the thing that keeps us playing a game like this. Xp grinding is just something that, from the second hero onward, is just keeping us from getting near end game and again starting to get gear to define builds etc.
gear is not that build defining, skills define my build, gear mostly supports them.
Leveling keeps us from doing endgame grinding right away, agreed, but I find that grind rather boring. If that is what you care for, stick to your one char.
If you can reach max level in a few hours, that ruins the game for the sake of a boring endgame grind. A big overall negative in my book.
