While many builds these days are killing nemesis/sharzul in 10sec etc, repeatedly nerfing player skills to keep the game challenging isn’t the answer imo.
First, it simply pisses players off, newbies and veterans alike, hate thier characters getting repeatedly nerfed. a specific piece of gear they farmed hours for a particular build may suddenly become useless. if thats not grounds to quit i don’t know what is.
A greater rift system with infinite difficulty, that we can select, for increasing rewards. would bring challenge back in the game, without pissing players off.
This would also really test the true strength of builds without resorting to somewhat gimmicky fights like ult mogdrogen.
I disagree, greater rift will never fix imbalance in between builds, period.
If your build underperform you will be directly punish with worst reward.
In the end, Ultimate is already the standard… having one difficulty to balance around is a lot easier.
I’m not piss about nerf, unless my build would generally under-perform compared to other builds.
No self-respecting dev is going to copy-paste an idea from one of their competitors. Anyone who wants “paragon levels” or “greater rifts” already has access to a game where these things exist. The Crucible might be Grim Dawn’s substitute for such a system, but we’ll see when it comes out. I understand that people have some complaints about GD’s endgame, but I think it’s disrespectful and lazy to suggest they copy another game’s endgame.
Nerfs are important because they prevent power creep and increase build diversity (assuming that nerfs don’t absolutely gut a build). Very few skills have been nerfed “repeatedly”, and if they were, it was only because they outperformed other skills to an embarrassing degree. Nerfs are necessary because if all other skills were buffed to the level of the OP ones, then everyone could have 10 second fabius kills with little effort. In response, bosses would have to be buffed, which is just a roundabout way of nerfing the player’s skills. I prefer to take the path of least resistance, which is nerfing the OP skills while buffing the useless ones.
How does this solve balance issues exactly? By introducing a system that directly exacerbates balance issues? Something like this would literally just be a nerf to all builds. The only differences are it would take dramatically more work than nerfing the handful of overpowered builds while also reducing the viability of less competitive builds.
That what most of company&studio are doing since forever they just disguise it
A game will never be completely balanced and i’am fine with it, people have to accept that they will always be something on the top and the insanely big build diversity of Grim Dawn is linked to the low endgame difficulty, greater is the challenge the less build can perform at that level
“Let’s take advantage of imbalances by making content that only imbalanced characters can complete!”
Pass.
Optimally I’d like to see a lot of the higher-dps builds be brought down to par with Ultimate enemy defenses improved as well. I don’t think a 10sec (or less) kill on any boss/nemesis is reasonable for Ultimate.
Pfft, Diablo III really lowered the bar in terms of creativity. I am willing to wait a bit till they do a full release of content. Then i can judge, yes build nerfs are annoying, but hey the game is still young.
The devs are aiming to make Grim Dawn a game as fun and balaced as possible for the majority of the players, and for this to be achieved, buffs and nerfs are necessary, so that there aren’t any skill/gear combinations that are either too OP/mandatory or simply lackbuster at higher difficulties.
Hopefully the upcomming changes on the 1.0.0.5 patch are going make things much better for everyone, or at least the majority of players.
they are already “copying” normal nightmare hell system of diablo. plus blizzard didn’t exactly invent game difficulties. simply give it a different name or something.
as far as skill that were repeatedly nerfed that didn’t need to: maiven, static strike, warcry. maiven and warcry were actually op, static strike wasn’t. all 3 are not really worth using anymore for the most part. (obviously everyone has different opinions on details of balance so im not here to argue this part, just opinion)
not saying they shouldn’t balance stuff, but players will always be many steps ahead in finding op stuff than devs, instead of always playing catchup with the nerf bat, give them something to do, like infinite difficulty that they can keep challenging themselves.
if u make game too hard, the elite players will be happy and newbs will cry. if you make game like current, newbs are happy, elite players are bored. so adding more difficulty levels that are optional would be a better solution i think. higher difficulty cap can even increase the need for coop which opens a whole new level of fun, as presently there is really no need to coop to clear the hardest content, even mogdrogen is not hard to solo.
I just wish there was a free respec or some potion like the tonic to reset devotions. A few times my build has been nerfed to where I just don’t like how it was in damage and defence so I have to restart the whole damn game again.
I understand things need to be changed but sometimes it’s more like work than enjoying a game when you finally get your char where you want then have to re-do it all over again.
Do you guys even like to push your limits ? the only challenge the game offer harder than Ultimate is Mogdrogen
We need more of this, even an hidden and optionnal dungeon (lets say x5 harder than current Ultimate) even with 0 reward can be really cool and
can promote teamplay.
Another problem with the endgame current state is to play in team, i love to play with team mate but
it become so ridiculus, take BoC for exemple, sometime one player dont have even the time to touch an elite since he get one shot in 1sec
and killing Shar’zul under 5sec is neither fun at all
In the end something has to done about this issue.
I would appreciate that Crate promote teamplay with near unfeasible solo content.
EDIT: Ok so i just saw (seems i’am late on this) that Crate is going to release something similar to greater rift system with The Crucible
Gonna be awesome! cant wait.
If for some reason Crate implements a GR system, I assure you, 100%, there will be people complaining about it saying “it’s too hard!”, “did you even test this???”, “<insert skill here> is too OP on GR, nerf it!”.
It’s an endless cycle.
I say, let GD be GD and let D3 be D3. D3 is still there for your GR nostalgia.
They’re my means of helping my newer characters level quicker. I’d hate to be unable to move them to other characters, and especially without warning as is the case with patches.
Frankly speaking, I’d prefer them to do more balacing passes on the game, before even adding more content that pushes our builds to the limit…
There is no point in adding more challenging features for the players, when only a handful of builds will be able to do it, so balancing content >>>>>>>>>>>> pushing our builds to the max.
How about given ideas on how to make Ultimate harder?
Like heroes that give their unique ability to every monsters around them AND having packs of heroes of 3-4 more often.
Imagine a pack of 3-4 heros giving their ability to monster in X meter around them: More health, reflect (when the hero does his reflect ability any monster would have it too around him but maybe at a lower %), damage boost, speed boost, health regen, ect…
Real quick their is one hero that I know that does it the ‘‘storm-something’’.
some builds will always be better than others, there will never be perfectly balanced game. even WoW at its height in tbc wasn’t prefectly balanced, despite i’m sure having many many more people on the balance team and ridiculous amounts of real time play data.
GD is like diablo2, it doenst have to be balanced. diablo2 was imba as shit too, and still hands down the best ARPG ever made. as long as its fun, it deosnt need to be balanced.
right now in GD theres 0 end game, my only enjoyment is making new builds. i pretty much quit a char the momen i finish it. theres no reason to farm. like i can farm 50 hrs and kill sharzul in 9sec instead of 10 whats the point?
but if there was a GR progression system, where people can actually push their limits theres a reason to do more end game, farming crafting etc. even perfecting your play. right now theres 0 challenge for a reasonable crafted build in any portion of the game besides like ultimate mogdrogen. you don’t even need to manage half of your skills or cooldowns, u just walk in and instantly kill everything on ur screen. bosses die in seconds. whats the point of fine tuning build balance, which by the way in a game like this will NEVER be achieved simply due to the possiblities it offers, the skill combos, the number of build defining legendaries etc.
You want to prioritize balance? thats what WoW does in its current state, everything dumb’ed down, everything normalized, everything newbified. “prefect is boring”. thats what excessive balancing does to a game. and the reason GD is fun is because its the exact opposite of that. why even bother crafting new builds if every build’s gonna have the same power?
I’m pretty sure that nobody here (myself included) is expecting a perfectly balanced game, because that is just plain impossible to achieve.
Obviously, some builds will always be better than others, but what is being discussed here is that the gap between exceptionally strong builds and underperforming ones needs to be decreased, and not to make that gap even worse… this will only kill build diversity and make the game a no brainer for everybody, and for that to happen, a few nerfs or buffs here and there will always happen, in any game you play.
