Grim Dawn DoTs for Dummies: A Primer


@korsar - Thanks for the info! I did not know that. I will update the main post.

@Loke82 - Sure thing. Resistance reduction isn’t quite as complex as DoT mechanics but I can throw something together.

@gouldec - Yep! Resistance reduction applies equally to the DoT damage type.

X% chance of DoT damage is indeed flat and described correctly, X% chance of +X% DoT damage works any time that damage type is applied and can be applied by attacks both with and without weapon damage.

Slight correction in the example. Nightfall has both a large flat damage component and a small weapon damage component. The weapon damage component will not stack with the savagery weapon damage component. Just don’t want anybody getting the wrong idea about multiple sources of weapon damage stacking.

Just going to put this out here.

-In the current state of the game taking into account Itemization, Devotion and Skills no Internal Trauma Build can kill the Nemeses quickly enough like other DoT builds

-If anyone is wondering about damage reflection being the cause then no. Reflection mitigation was child’s play, it’s the DoT sources that are the issue here, highest tick is saw was 69k in this build. It could stand next to any boss w/o issue but the DoT was so slow that enemies outhealed you sometimes

-I call it the slowest cause i made an experimental Bleeding Callidor’s Tempest caster build that was able to quickly dispatch of the Queen and other Nemeses.
The kill time was slower than other builds but it was a million times better than Internal Trauma build

-Biggest issue with Internal Trauma are the sources and the improved duration. Both of which it lacks a lot. And even Blind Fury isn’t as helpful as it should be

-I am not looking for world record kill times especially when the build’s core concept is unusual but when every boss fight feels like Mogdrogen then I don’t think the build is any good

-Obviously these are conclusions that i drew from own experiences and someone else is free to show us all how it’s done (Cause Moar DoTs!! :rolleyes:)

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Something to add to the IT section-

Reflection handling is easy. The real problem is the duration of it. Despite all the sources for IT one lacks enough improved duration to sustain said DoTs making IT to be the worst DoT build (one can’t “fire and forget” like other more traditional DoT builds and has to tank their enemies which is not an issue but is immensely frustrating)

Very much appreciated Silben and Chthon. I’ll update the post accordingly.

I am not really an expert on the game; I’ve only compiled what I’ve read from other experts. If anyone confident in their knowledge of the game has any more information on the subject, please feel free to post it and I will update accordingly.

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Do you have any real proof of existence Aether/Chaos DoTs?

When you use conversion, you can check results at tooltip on 2nd chartab.
Simple example is OFF with only Cold & Frostburn.
Cold converts propertly, but Frostburn value doesn’t even decrease with Aether/Chaos convertion (Unlike Fire convertion)
Also damage to Trainig dummy corresponds to the declared damage and have frostburn visual effect

Check this image:
Pure OFF // Orb of Ch’Thon // Aldrich // Orb+Aldrich // Warpfire

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Thank you very much for bringing this to my attention. I consulted the original source where I learned the information regarding the Aether/Chaos DoT’s and discovered that they were a bug removed in, which would explain why they are not showing up for you. I have since updated the guide to remove the incorrect information.

Again, I have not personally tested any of the information I have presented in the primer. I’ve only taken what I’ve read on the forums (and apparently I could be mistaken even in that). Anyone who is willing to provide hard evidence of any of these properties (or their lack thereof) I describe in the primer (especially figuring out what the deal is with BWC) will be mentioned in the OP.

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What is about flat DOTs applied through WPS? Does it stack as a different sources or not? Does it stack with a basic attack replacement (Savagery/Cadence/Firestrike/Beronath/Troll) flat DOT application?

What happens if we have a Trickster with a Fox constellation hitting with a Savagery and having 1 basic hit and 2 different WPS?
Will the target have 3 different bleed sources (1 Savagery[itself+flat]+1WPS[Savagery+flat]+1WPS[Savagery+flat]) or is some of them overriden by the others like say Execution overrides Amarasta’s Quick Cut as it have more %weapon damage?

The second one. The only thing important is the % weapon damage component. Highest source of weapon damage (in this case Execution magnified by Savagery) will override all other sources of weapon damage (Savagery, AQC). The only exception is if the WPS itself adds extra DoT damage (Whirling Death adding Bleed, for example), in which case that gets added as it’s a unique source.

Execution overrides quick cut, but savagery + fox + 18/3 sec from Mogdrogen + 40/3 sec on your weapon + etc all stack together. They also stack with similarly worded flat damage gear procs (does N bleed damage over M sec), and mastery skills.

No it isn’t. It’s a little hard to notice it cause the screen’s petty messy but this definitely still works

By the way, there seem to be another way of applying a DOT in the game, similarly to how there are three ways of applying resist reduction. What is commonly found and stacks together is worded as “N damage over M seconds”. The other one is “X damage per second, Y second duration”, and looks like a debuff applying DOT every sec. If there is a rule that only one such debuff can be active at any time, they don’t stack.

Consider bloody pox main skill and the overnerfed proc from Vileblood. If they stack, then I’m wrong

I see, so the only source in this example is flat dmg + Savagery flat dmg (if not counting Whirling Death). Thanks, that helps making my trickster a bit better.

Is it the same with Nidalla’s Hidden Hand flat poison and the only source is NHH itself or it makes every Nighblade’s WPS (excluding Execution) a different source?

And another question about proccing constellation. Howl of Mogdrogen or Rend (Huntress) - does it’s damage depends on the skill that procced them? It seems like not cuz it can be binded to skills that completely lacks weapon damage (Devouring Swarm or Wendigo Totem for example) though they still can crit if the corresponding skill crits.

  1. NHH will modify its corresponding WPS to have flat poison damage, meaning each WPS will be its own source.

  2. The only way the devotion procs are connected to the linked skills are that the linked skills determine when the procs go off. Once they do though, they exist on their own (with their own chances to crit if they deal damage) and don’t have anything to do with the linked skill.

And sorry I didn’t address the other person asking about RR. It’s actually pretty simple, there’s only 3 types. All 3 types stack with each other.

-X% resistance: These all stack with each other
X Reduced Targets Resistance: Only strongest one applies
X% Reduced Targets Resistance: Only strongest one applies

For example, to maximize Fire resist reduction as a Pyromancer, I’d want Thermite Mines, Vulnerability, and Eldritch Fire devotion (all give -X% Fire resistance and stack), Elemental Storm devotion (2nd type, only one), and Viper constellation (3rd type, only one). Hope that helps!

@mammothunter - AFAIK that rule doesn’t exist. As long as the DoT debuffs are separate sources they should stack along with everything else.

One more question - does the DOTs contribute to ADCtH?
Guess no as it’s not an attack on itself…

ADCtH does not affect DoTs, even DoTs using weapon damage as a source. You can never life steal off of a DoT (unless it’s the Life Leech DoT).

ADCtH only affects direct weapon damage.

I have a question: what would happen if you took Discord on Cadence? Would the IT damage be converted three ways into Burn, Electrocute and Frostburn?

Yep! 1/3 Burn, 1/3 Frostburn, 1/3 Electrocute.

Am I getting it correct that damage from Nidalla’s Justifiable Ends is multiplied by weapon damage of Shadow Strike?

No, because Nidalla’s Justifiable Ends is not a buff and therefore the poison damage listed is not Flat Poison added to weapon damage. It adds poison damage to the Shadow Strike skill itself, which means it’s unaffected by weapon damage modifiers.