Grim Dawn Version 1.1.6.0

Is the pseudo pet build you’re talking about the Immortal Army build???

If that’s the case I am 110% in support of your argument. That’s the most fun build guide and build to rush and farm with man, mad respect for posting that, AND for beating the game on Ultimate going HC Classless.

This guy is a living legend, man. Heed his words, he brings great perspective on alternative playstyles that keep this game super refreshing and original!

Immortal pet army is already something that existed for a long while now. Chillwhisper and Blightlord.

Pseudo pets builds are cool, I agree. Remember the builder legend Belzzz and his build that have like 20 pseudo pets :smile:

About conduit, Blade Spirits were added in some monster builds to increase AoE further and abuse them in non relevant setups like Belgo, Spite, etc. But at same time if you’re after pseudo pets build you need the summons limit increase.

About Stronghold and Cataclysm, it’s good that +skills bonus is on full set now. So that means if you don’t intend to use it, you don’t get +skills. It was cheap way of getting extra skill points. Cataclysm could’ve been used in many elemental caster builds. I actually refrained from using it on purpose.

Pets are skill hungry though and some pet builds lack +skill points. Gate of many worlds for example could add +1 Shaman or Occultist instead of Arcanist.

Yeah, it looks like nobody except for us wants anything unique to be left in GD. Standardize everything and bring all setups to the middle line. Neuter the game. One of the greatest GD builders recently told me that the moment he can’t come up with a unique build that has NOT been provisioned by the devs, he would quit and uninstall the game. I definitely feel the same way. I remember the time when Mempo of Twilight was all the rage in D3 and people were farming it day and night for the unique stat. Then Blizz gutted all special stats from all cool items and rendered everything 100% standard. People praised the devs for a couple days, then everyone got bored, and only bots remained playing.

I think removing +1 all skills from Cataclysm was a good change from a balance perspective.

But I agree with Contragor. Part of the fun of this game is finding “off-label” uses for items.

Using the obvious items for builds should work, and almost always does. But a large part of what keeps the game interesting at end game is finding builds that work with non obvious set ups. I think there is even a loading screen message about making a build around a specific legendary item, which I think is in the spirit of this point.

Contragor has posted a build that comes to mind - his HC Warlord. It uses Targo helm, but no other Targo pieces. The “off-label” use of Targo helm is part of what makes the build interesting.

I personally find set items that are used only in builds with most, or all, of the corresponding set, to be somewhat boring. Cataclysm’s Eye is no longer a unique item; it is now just caster offhand with the typical stats, unless used in the full set. Granted, +1 all skills wasn’t that unique; but it was something that set it apart when not used in set.

I prefer set items that offer unique abilities that fit in with other builds as well. For example, I’ve always wanted to do a build that uses Gem of Dreeg amulet, that doesn’t use the Deception of Dreeg set. The reason being the cool proc on the amulet (Gaze of Dreeg).

A rough analogy - pet builds that take constellations that give no pet bonuses, but have a good proc - like Torch or Leviathan. That seems like another “off-label” use. If I couldn’t bind whirlpool to pets, it would make the game less interesting.

It should also be considered that the complaint wasn’t about balance. It was about creativity. I think this is the kind of feedback you want. Ideally, you want a game that is both balanced, and that encourages creativity in builds. A tall order to be sure. But something I’ve come to expect from this game and its developers.

One thing I loved about 1.5 (I think it was 1.5) was all the interesting bonuses added to green items. Difficult to balance? Yes. Makes game interesting? You better believe it!

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That’s because those procs scaled off of pet damage when attached to pet scaled pets.

And again, there is not a single build the devs don’t know. I’m gonna put a link to the evidence:

Sure, i’m all for that. The specific problem is that +1 to all skills in a single item is far too good and far too easy to splash anywhere. Is it really being creative when you can just splash the super generic item into a build?

I actually agree to move the +1 all skills from stronghold shield and cataclysm offhand to full set bonus. Especially cataclysm offhand that is overloaded with stats. Fortunately we still have tome of arcane waste for a beautiful generic items…

Now I am still waiting for the buff to cataclysm set.

Yeah, I feel that all of pet items should give at least +1 to two masteries.

LoL

OP secret builds don’t exist if the devs don’t know they exist. Doesn’t mean the devs aren’t aware of all synergies in the game. :stuck_out_tongue:

But seriously, I agree with contragor here.
There is no worse feeling than making an obvious build.

The game is already centered so much in set, making building kinda obvious. However, fortunately we can still approach one set in multiple angle.

I remember making elemental bonemonger where everyone think that aether is the only thing to go with that set. Now bonemonger is used in so many elemental builds. :rofl:

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I, personally, am not arguing that there are builds devs don’t know about. I have no idea if they do or not. I do think that there were builds doing sub 4 minute 150-170 Crucible runs does imply that there are at least a few builds the devs didn’t anticipate; but I can also believe they did anticipate those builds. But to be 100% honest, I really don’t care if they did or not.

I am making a subjective argument: the game is less fun when the number of items with non-obvious uses decreases. You are free to disagree. But I strongly feel if the game was “Level to 100, pick skill, use set tailored to that skill”, the game would be much less interesting than it is.

I conceded in my original post that +1 skills wasn’t all that creative. But it was more creative than its current incarnation.

I would keep the change as is, I am not asking for a revert to Cataclysm (even though I do have two pets builds that used it, I have since adjusted).

I am just saying that something I really like is when set items are occasionally BIS items for builds that don’t use that set. Example: Heart of Ulzuin amulet (lowered cooldown on Blast Shield, health restored to Blast Shield); Spellscourge amulet (lowered cooldown on Overguard). I suppose one could argue that such special effects should either exist only as set bonuses, or as part of non-set items; but I personally would find that less interesting. In other words: if set items are only BIS when used with the full set, I find that less interesting than when set items are occasionally (not always, not even commonly) BIS for builds that don’t use that set.

Edit: Fixed typos

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That doesn’t make it any less unique, on a Dervish. Specifically @Contragor’s build, like I originally expressed.

Never said it wasn’t unique, just said the playstyle already existed and it was supported by the game.

Nope, the build uses Barthollem’s Gavel/Word of Solael depending on how you choose to build it.

I understand, you are defending your point and that’s fair. I’m fairly defending mine, I didnt say the playstyle never existed. I think there is a misunderstanding happening here and you may not be receiving the message I’m trying to express.

I’m in support of @Contragor’s arguements because his builds, his builds specifically and his approach to building and experiencing the game in general, is what brought a LOT of freshness and originality to this game, for me, as a noob learning and reading about builds. A Dervish pet build? I mean come on man, sure pet builds and the playstyles existed prior, but on a Dervish? You cant tell me that’s not interesting. It was the first one I had ever seen or read about, and the only one. Unique.

If it uses a 2H or a different off-hand, what is the complaint about this off-hand change, then? !!! Plus, as jabby mentioned there is also arcane wastes.

The build is affected by the conduit changes which removed the +1 BS limit replacing it with fire damage bonuses.

The offhand was mentioned to point out that the devs are reducing the pool of special stats on gear either entirely (empowered essence of beronath) or moving it to full set bonus (Stronghold, Cataclysm).

And I’m still mad at Zantai for nerfing the Frigid Barrel of the Relentless North! I was this close to making a really cool build with those guns!

It’s complaining about the loss of +1 BS summon limit from the conduit. Contragor just happens to be talking about the other items as well

sk-ele-binder noises

I wanted to use this example to point out how +1-to-skills alternatives can also kill some variety. This ammy is cool, but imho it’s so much overshadowed by Mythical Pestilence - but dreeg set ammy is ok in the set.

It’s fairly limited where you will not want the +1 to boost all the base skills over a bit of fun eye spams. As an early filler, perhaps. I have used the dreeg set ammy as such, but I also know that I am ultimately limiting the build by doing so.

This thread is going places. I missed a good ol’ thread splitting.