Don’t you guys like when people double-down on their wrong baseless opinions?
It is far easier for players to submit evidence than the other way around. Think about the number of skills, devotion constellations, gear pieces, components and so on that make up hundred is not thousands of builds. Then consider that player ability plays into a lot of endgame encounters, that some players have dfferent objectives than others which in turn changes what one player considers “acceptable” or “overpowered/underpowered” to another player.
It just makes sense to hear from players how something plays before and after a change and submitting evidence to back up claims if they feel it has caused severe and detrimental effects rather than just looking at sheer, raw numbers and deriving a conclusion from it.
Which evidence a regular player without technical skills can provide? The only convincing evidence would be statistics.
A regular player can only say that, for example:
- According to patch notes, familiars were nerfed, when it comes to single target damage. That’s why we see messages that some pet builds became slower.
- % damage and health pushed to skills, and one of the most popular pet build (Fluffy) doesn’t have them at high enough levels to compensate for the loss. In some runs pets just die instantly, this happened less often in the previous patch. And yes, some players can still grim stash tributes and “farm” Crucible with 4 banners and all the blessings.
- Fluffy is not the only pet build, but it looks like it was hit very hard by this patch. Other pet builds may still be viable.
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This was called “feels”, and was not accepted as evidence. 
Again, which evidence are we talking about?
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Actually play the build after the update changes. If Fluffy Squishy is notably weaker and you can provide screenshots/videos or anecdotal experience to confirm this, then you have a chance of being heard. Just reading patch notes and jumping to conclusions as Zantai mentioned above is not what they want to hear.
Compare it to crittrain for example who tried his pre-1.1.9 pets Conjurer in 1.1.9 Crucible and is having no problems with it. That tells Zantai that his build is doing fine despite the changes to pets.
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That’s basically what I’d expect, though more in-depth is never a bad thing. Also in a place that is more accessible like an Ideas and Feedback thread. I don’t expect developers to search through every thread and post of the forums, especially a thread that is nearing 1 000 posts 
Well we can see where this thread is going.
#nowhere.
I already wrote about this. Correct me, if I’m wrong, but Crit uses grim stash to adjust tributes to run Crucible with full blessings and 4 banners. I was only farming 160 with 1 blessing and sometimes 1 banner in self found gear, with some pieces randomed below average. I also admit that I am a casual player (I was surprised when I checked and saw my 700 hours in game, basically on 4 different pet builds).
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Critt does GD Stash his characters but the affixes on his equipment aren’t required looking at them. Tributes can be grinded at any level of Crucible. it’s not hard to amass them even if you go up to and stop at 150.
I’d be surprised if either of those compared to a self-found character following the same build created enough of a difference to matter as they really shouldn’t. It’s harder to compare Fluffy Squishy versus critt’s character because well, his build is more tuned for Crucible whereas Maya builds her characters very defensively and often with minimal skill use and generally tests them on Celestials or SR.
Have you also considered looking at tweaking your character after the changes to see if there is any way to improve it if it’s suddenly struggling?
Most probably 3 banners. He spends the number of tributes that is theoretically sustainable in regards to Tribute balance for farming 150 - 170 which means being able to run it infinitely provided you don’t die. 4+4 is sustainable IIRC but only for very fast builds. I’d say 4 minutes consistently without dying not grabbing the loot (so that blessings last you 1 more run than full cycle which is 4 or 5 runs) should do it that’s why nobody does it because it’s just too much / not reasonable.
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I know. But I was comparing my previous runs to what we have now. I rarely needed to grind for tributes to run 150-160 with a single blessing. And I rarely had all my pets killed, which turns the run into survival mode, where you can die within a few seconds.
Yes, this is why I chose to play with builds from Maya. I didn’t kill all celestials yet, but Mogdrogen and Ravager were very dangerous even with all the defenses. Once pets are dead, any run with Fluffy turns into survival mode, where you can be killed within a few seconds. I guess this is the major difference between Crit’s and my runs, Ulo + Empyrion compensate for % health loss on pets. And since Blood of Dreeg restores % health, pets may survive some AOE, etc.
I am not good at making builds. I don’t even know what to try, maybe switch off hand to +All Skills, and try Mogdrogen/Fiend shoulders instead of Beastcaller’s. We need Maya to grow some balls and patch the game 
That being said, I guess I am more than OK with % damage loss, but % health is what probably made things very complicated for me.
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That discussion was taken over to another topic (which got locked very soon afterwards), as Zantai doesn’t seem to want this cluttering the topic.
Yeah he wanted data and I am no tester who minmaxes builds, I was just sad about the reduced lifespan of the Primal Spirit due to the changes to Beastcaller set.
I dunno what the Fluffy Squishy build is… you guys sure come up with silly names for builds. 
I like to create my own builds without checking here, personally.
This is because crucible is balanced around you using blessings , just you telling Z that you cant run the same as before because your pets die with 1 blessing when they use to not is 100% working correctly now.
I run everything with 3 beacons just for speeds sake, Sometimes 4 blessings. On pets in crucible though you should 100% without question use ATLEAST 3 buffs or just dont do it. Banners/beacons are just for speed sake they arent needed at all to run crucible but those buffs are (for pets)
BTW I didnt defend anything lol , When I first read the patch notes it did seem like a nerf and a rather harsh one but all I could do was test and see (Which I only do in crucible)
That is however my birds build , This is beastcaller
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Hm…
hmmmm…
hMMMMMM…
I may have an idea if you are willing to test it.
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/d2jQrMrN
And an even more radical idea:
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/b28GAzyN
And some balls you say?
Liek dis?
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I am not saying Fluffy became unplayable. Pets didn’t die before, but now sometimes can die on wave 160, that should mean something. My guess is that % health was moved too far into skill level, and blessings completely compensate for that. I checked your build, and you don’t even have skill levels as high as Fluffy.
My gameplay is not focused on running Crucible. There are other things to run and kill in the game, where you don’t have access to blessings, which can be powerful enough to adjust even bigger nerfs. What we do now is comparing Crucible runs on a grim stashed character, who can get all blessings at will, with players, who went through a pretty hard grind to get some gear with non-best random values, and who want to run different things in the game. If this is the evidence we were talking about, then we just have to live with that.
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I knew if you grow balls, they would be fluffy!
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What the heck happened to Salazar? I need his blade to craft Sacrifice, I am not kidding I did like 10 runs to the Depraved Sanctuary and all he keeps dropping is regular butchers. Previously, he pretty much always dropped his blade. Did they change the loot table?
I farmed it in 1.1.8 for crafting Nemesis and it was definitely not always but rather seldom.
According to the table he has 28% chance.
No I recently farmed a few to craft Windshear boots, you should be very unlucky but verifying the files never hurts.