Why assume there will be no burn or poison implements, or any other DOTs?
Those damage types are just as important as flat damage, so I’m sure Crate has not overlooked them.
Awesome work! 
i think there will be no DOT base damage, but probably some items increasing it (like a scepter with acid base damage and +% poison dmg/duration)
that probably won’t happen, but maybe we’ll see more weapons like the Hellmaw Shotgun in the future (Ranged weapons with high magical dmg). and i disagree with ranged attack making them uniques, you can have physical ranged weapons and melee magical weapons. which make them unique imho is that they support spells, that’s all.
Why assume there will be no burn or poison implements, or any other DOTs?
Those damage types are just as important as flat damage, so I’m sure Crate has not overlooked them.
The current iteration has caster weapons dealing pure magical damage, one of the seven possible types
Did you see casual weapons which have only bleed or internal trauma damage?
That might depend. If I buff the caster damage type via my stats but not physical, wouldn’t that possibly make them better ?
If the damage type of the skill is fixed, I’d go for whatever I do most damage with.
If the damage type remains whatever the weapon deals, then the caster damage, thanks to not having to overcome armor, can be lower and still effective.
Maybe it’s just me then but I think it’s a shame that rather than try to do something new to make caster weapons unique they have just removed the one thing that made them unique, the ranged attack.
Ranged attack is not new, we have guns, rifles and crossbows.
I think they try something new for the caster not for the weapon here. Have casters that are not simply elemental damage archers.
I’m not sure I like sceptors and daggers as caster weapons. I don’t see why wands, orbs or the like shouldn’t be included. Does it really fit the theme badly? They can still be grim.
It just doesn’t feel right to be a pure caster and have what is basicly a melee weapon with elemental damage in your hand. You could use ranged weapons, like pistols and crossbows, but that is different characteristic as well.
On another note. I am very much looking forward to using these new weapons on my magic/melee hybrids!
These caster weapons still have to bypass enemy resistance. Armor might mitigate a lot of physical damage, but the same is true for magical damage and resistance.
Mobs have physical resistance too. But they have not magical armor.
If scepters and daggers do the same thing as wands and orbs, what difference does it make? In the world of Cairn, these are the items that spell casters use; there are no wands or orbs. Instead you have these daggers and scepters which perform the same function - channeling magical energies.
IMHO - I find it refreshing not to be stuck with the same fantasy tropes all the time.
If you check out Physical Damage maces and swords of the same level as the Chillheart Scepter, you’ll see that Physical Damage base weapons have higher damage. Also, Cunning gives base damage bonus, which spirit cannot do for magical damage. Also, physical resistance is not that common.
I see what your concern is, but I believe they are going to balance it all right.
Not sure I understand, are you saying Cunning gives a flat damage bonus on top of a percentage buff, while Spirit only does the latter ?
That’s exactly what he said, lol.
If weapon types didn’t matter, then we could all be running around with literally anything. It does make a difference. However it is just my personal opinion that daggers and scepters doesn’t quite fit my idea of a caster, as they are almost always used as melee weapons and that is their design.
I’m not saying we should absolutely stick with wands, staves or orbs, but I just can’t fit daggers and scepters with pure casters. For elemental melee chars however, the weapons looks awesome AND fitting.
I don’t mind new things or making up the own world, it’s pretty cool. For example, I think the offhands are great in GD. Books, what a cool idea. But I would have liked to see different choices for pure casters than these presented here.
Guild Wars 2 uses scepters and daggers for the Elementalist. GW2 doesn’t have orbs, but they do have foci - which would be comparable to GD’s caster off-hands.
Also, I didn’t say weapon types didn’t matter. What I said was, why do we have to have the same fantasy tropes if something else does the same thing? These new caster weapons are for casters and their function (aka weapon type) is designed to focus magical energies.
I think they’ve provided some nice choices that fit into the world of Cairn. Plus, they sure do look nice!
Casters in Grim Dawn do not fit your generic cookie cutter “mage” as it would in another game. As such, we don’t need cookie cutter caster weapons, like staves. Medierra has given their reasons for doing this in the past.
IMO Staves are unnecessary, because ANYTHING can be a “magical foci”, which is essentially what a staff is. I mean you take a club, you put cold steel or searing ember and bam, now you’ve got a foci which grants you a spell. Wand is just a fancy name for a fancy club. We’ve got no fanciness in grim dawn, they don’t really fit. Look at the Blackwood Wand, this is what is to be expected for “wands”. Scepters and Daggers which give great bonuses to your spells and chosen magic damage type are awesome additions.
Why exactly do you want to see yet another game with wands and staves? It really would not fit the game at all…
I just want caster weapons to do something different when I hit an enemy with them. Why do they have to be a standard melee weapon? I don’t care what they look like to be honest, I just don’t like the fact that casters have lost the unique attack that they had in TQ.
Having the choice to shoot fireballs from your staff(or whatever the hell you want to call it) OR go pure spells allowed for more build variety. Instead of building on that idea, it has been taken away. Now a caster has to go pure spell caster or go melee/hybrid.
The Underlord mod for TQ built the staff skills even more, that is what I would have liked to see more of in GD.
If you are replaying to my post:
I like the originality in GD, but I wouldn’t have minded stuff like staves and wands, although orbs are cooler, either. We are still using swords, axes, clubs, shields and so forth.
The fun part is, that the Grim Dawn universe is being created by the devs themselves, which gives a lot more freedom. I’m just voicing what I think is a reasonable opinion. It’s not a dealbreaker or anything. Just feels odd using a melee weapon for a pure caster.
EDIT: What Dobster said as well.
This isn’t TQ.
Take a two-hand sword and slap a completed fire component - fire fireballs. Slap the same thing on a sword, a mace, a hammer, etc. - shoot fireballs. You don’t need a staff to do this.
Why can’t a caster go melee?
I’m not sure what you are “losing”?
I say let’s see what the new caster weapons do and then decide. I’m sure they’ll go a round or two of tweaking.
I mean you take a club, you put cold steel or searing ember and bam, now you’ve got a foci which grants you a spell.
Yes, this worked some time ago. But they removed ability to spam fireballs from searing ember. And they nerf all spammable caster abilities. Only arcanist will have some. So I’m surprised that we have not ranged caster weapons. Shooting at enemy by pistol is not very effective when you have not a lot of cunning or something else which will boost your casual attacks. Forcing all caster to take arcanist mastery is strange approach.
This is about weapons, not components. If we went along with your reply, lets do away with weapons altogether and just carry components in our hands.
I am “losing” the fact that all the caster weapon does now is melee hit.
The “this is not TQ” thing is getting old. I’m trying to give feedback and even give suggestions but some people seem to have blinkers on and cannot see it from both sides.
If I only played melee classes these weapons would be awesome. I’ve seen people post that they cannot wait to try out a Battlemage in this thread. What does that say about the weapons?
Going to shut up and wait for the patch now and try them out. Maybe it’s me looking at this all wrong.
Caster weapons are doing something different… a completely different damage type that is unmitigated by armor.
Why do you need a ranged attack? I mean if you do, just grab a gun. How is it any different than a staff?
Just feels odd using a melee weapon for a pure caster.
A melee weapon on a pure caster would end up not being used anyhow. I think you guys are looking at this wrong. The melee weapons are not meant to be used in melee combat (in most situations). Yes, you can use them in melee, and yes, they will deal damage unmitigated by armor, but as a pure caster, such as someone who spams DEE or the arcanist spells… do you really intend to hit things with staff attacks (if we had them), or would you just cast your spammy spell, like DEE or Arcanists laser, or the replicating missile?
The ideology behind the caster weapons is to give players a weapon in the main hand that will have two purposes:
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it will deal magic damage and scale with your main stat, unlike physical. When you have 500 spirit and 150 cunning, your physical damage will be trash while your magical will not. IF you decide to fight in melee with some kind of hybrid, that option is there. If you don’t, well you’re a spellcaster so…
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they will have properties to boost your spells. You want to be a cold-mage? use the cold scepter, adds tons of cold damage, base damage is cold, and with a Banshee’s misery you’ll be hitting over 100% cold damage.
Yes, they are melee, but the purpose of them being melee is so hybrid builds can use them, as well as pure builds. Mages will use them for the damage and skill buffs. Hybrids will use them for the alternate damage types.
Why make an entirely new class of weapons (which will require ENTIRELY new sets of animations for) when you can kill two birds with one stone? You could call it laziness, but really, it’s ingenuity. It’s quite original, and think about the company for a second, do you really think Crate has the resources to work on staff models, textures, effects, and animations?
The “this is not TQ” thing is getting old. I’m trying to give feedback and even give suggestions but some people seem to have blinkers on and cannot see it from both sides.
Idk, I’m seeing it on both sides. These “people” are not the only ones with blinkers on. You as well, you are comparing the game to TQ when its not TQ. Yes, it’s the same engine. Yes it’s the same devs. That does not equate to the gameplay and everything about TQ has to be mirrored in GD. In fact, they have taken things that are good in TQ and repeated them, and things that were bad have been improved upon vastly. (build variety, skill variety/usefulness, item usage, DOT damage types, etc etc)