GrimSheet: Endgame Build Table - ETE edition [v1.24]

GRIMSHEET (CLICK ME)

*No pun intended

Foreword

The aim of this table is to gather data for every single endgame* build there is. However, as you can probably guess, first of all a proper measurement system should be developed. So before we start, I want to clarify 2 things:

  1. It is impossible and pointless to compare BUILDS. You, I and that one person - we all have different tastes and preferences how to play the game we like. Some people love “2 buttons builds”, some hate them. Some people enjoy high mobilty - others prefer to be rooted to the ground. Things like - comfort, visual effects, the feel - all of that is purely subjective.

  2. BUILD PERFORMANCE, on the other hand, is an objective measurment. Ability to complete MC, rogue-likes dungeons, Shattered Realm, Celestials, Crucible - all of that can and should be compared. You’re absolutely free to disagre about requirements I have chosen, but that won’t change a thing. And even if you don’t care about that high endgame content, you can still use this table to find builds, that at the very least are good without a single exception.

Oh, and the last but not least - this is a softcore list
Introduction

@Stupid_Dragon and I have made this thing. You can check his reddit thread

Primary the goal was to make his previous ranking a bit more data-based, however, as we progressed we realised that it had become more important than just ranking.

And here it is. Almost 200 builds. Yet, we still miss a lot of them. The ones we couldn’t find, the outdated ones and the builds we are not even aware of. So if you want to show some great performance / uplift your favorite class combo / prove us wrong in our judgment - then simply give us a build that fits our requirments (you can see them below).

Hope our work wasn’t fruitless.

Requirments and Criteria Here are they:

Criterium 0: in order for build to be presented it needs to be capable of clearing SR75-76 until the timer goes down OR it should be able to clear CR less that in 6 minutes. BUILD MUST BE AT LEAST FROM v. 1.1.6.0 or we consider it outdated, unless smbd proves otherwise. Also, it should either be different from already posted builds or perform better.
(It’s hard to descride what is considered to be different in 2 a.m. so i’m probably will add this lately)

After that, build receives honourable 0 points. In orded to gain them, any of the belowmentioned requirements should be passed.

Shattered Realm performance is measured that way:

85 - 1 points
90 - 2 points
95 - 3.5 points
100 - 5.5 points
105 - 7.5 points
110+ - 9.5 points

Crucible performance is measured that way:

<5.30 - 1 point
<5.00 - 2 points
<4.45 - 3.5 points
<4.30 - 5.5 points
<4.20 - 7.5 points
<4.00 - 9.5 points

*Amount of points and categories both for SR and CR might change in future.

Celestials:

Avatar of Mogdrogen (Mog), Ravager and Crate of Entertainment (CoE) - 0.5 points
Callagadra - 1 point.

Naked CR means no buff&beacons CR run with extra spawn (aether clusters are ofc banned.)

<9.00 - 1 point
<7.40 - 1.5 point
<6.30 - 2 points

Speedrun SR75-76 is average time with at least 4 runs done

<10.30 - 1 point
<9.00 - 1.5 point
<8.00 - 2 points

(these last two categories are in, lets say, beta-testing, we want to now how they will change the rankings. So numbers might change in future, and you are free to propose change there.)

- Objective?! Cut the bullshit, there’s no way this is objective. Can’t you see that is severely biased towards pilots performance? What genius have decided to judge CR according to the best timer and not the average one? Since when anything past SR76 became relevant, there’s no reward! And what’s wrong with that point scaling?

-Okay, listen here. We/I don’t take into account how skilled the pilot is, because if I/we do so, then we/I should also care about PC configurations, amount of runs done, political situation in your country, what moon phase it is - and that’s just too much. So when we judge perfomance, I assume that pilot had done their best and that other people can repeat their success. If a sweaty builder is able to beat SR110, then why wouldn’t you be able to do it with some practice? They are not superhumans or naturally talented - they just practiced, because they found it fun. Besides, you can look at it as “what build is capable of”, rather than “what build can do 100% of time without breaking a sweat”. Again - here I/we assume that pilot have shown builds best performance, unless it’s proven otherwise. (I know about Russel’s Teapot, but the thing is - perfect performance doesn’t exist, it’s like a limit - functions moves to it, but it never reaches it.)

Now about best timers - I know, i’m also not happy about that one, however, most builders tend to show only best ones, at rarely do they mention the average one. If everybody starts to write the average ones, then we will change that.

SR past 76 - same reason why we still care about Crucible, although it’s practically beter to farm SR65-66 and some totems. It’s not about farm, it’s about performance in different environments.

Scaling: the difference between, let’s say, SR85 and SR90 compared to SR90 and SR95 are not even close. You can check up the SR scaling yourself. Same goes CR, difference in damage between sub 5 and sub 4.30 is much bigger than between sub 5.30 and sub 5.

I hope my answer at least partly have satisfied you.

How to interpret this data Class can be ranked low in our table for three main reasons:
  1. it’s unpopular and therefore there’re not many polished builds > it’s considered to be weak (Reaper used to be a weak one, until @banana_peel proved the opposite)
  2. most builds for the combe are outdated for some reason (Paladin, Mage Hunter, Purifier and so on)
  3. class is actually weak (sabo and deceiver)

It can be a mixture of those though.

The opposite is also true - class is popular and therefore there’re a lot of different builds. (Dervish, Conjurer and Spellbinded). Or it can be like: class is great and therefore popular. It’s pretty hard to distinguish cause from consequence.

Submission form

If you want to make sure, that I won’t forget about your build or you have updated an already mentioned in the sheet build, then you’d better write the form in the replies.

In order for me to make things easier, follow this form:

Link to the thread/GT link, if you haven’t created one:
Class:
Author:
Patch Version:
CR timing: [e.g. 5.03, if you don’t play crucible, leave - here]
SR: [e.g. 85, if you don’t play SR, leave - here]
Naked CR: [e.g. 8.40, if you don’t play naked CR, leave - here]
SR speedrun [e.g. 10.10 average, if you don’t play it, leave - here]

Every mentioned achievement must be proven by any sort of evidence.

i’ll add my commentary about classes later, right now let it be like this. And sorry for poor language use and typos. hope it wasn’t too terrible

Credits go

To @Stupid_Dragon, cause that was his idea and for all techical support (i’m dumb with excel). It was a pleasure to work with you on that one.
To @allpeople that have produced so many truly creative and great builds. Although most of them have left us alone, the shafts of light sometimes grace the corner of rooms

23 Likes

Changelog

[v1.24] 23rd of November 2020:
  1. Updated Aether AAR Spellbinder by Roman
  2. Added Vitality Gunner Oppressor by Eard
  3. Added SR speedrun and naked ex CR to Slevin’s Ultos Warder
  4. Added Chaos Pets Conjurer by Crit
  5. Updated Dark One Cabalist by virotmaglan
  6. Added Dark One Ritualist by AlkamosHater
  7. Added naked ex and avatar to Stoneguard Warlord by AlkamosHater
  8. Added Retal DE DK by AlkamosHater (Afanasenkov’s one was removed)
  9. Added Chaos Oblivion+Sigils Deceiver by Nery
  10. Updated Cyclone Grenado Elementalist by Crit
  11. Added Lightning AAR Mage Hunter by Nery
  12. Added Physical Gunner Paladin by Crit
  13. Added Rancor Trickster by nofika4u
  14. Updated Retal DE Oppressor by x1x2
[v1.23] 16th of November 2020:
  1. Added Physical Runes Paladin by Valinov
  2. Added Ulzuin Shieldbreaker by Crit
  3. Added Cyclone Grenado Elementalist by Crit
  4. Added Retal EoR Warlord by AlkamosHatet
  5. Changed SR from 90 to 95 and added points for CoE in acid RF dervish
[v1.22] 15th of November 2020:
  1. Added Fire Mortar Sorcerer by Nery
  2. Added Physical FW DK by AlkamosHater
  3. Changed SR score in dmt’s druid from 100 to 105
  4. Added SR speedrun to Crit’s SS breaker
  5. Fixed virotmaglan’s Cabalist counted as Ritualist
  6. Added x2 reserved to every class
  7. Added Fire BA commando, but it sucks. Will try to fix it later.
[v1.21] 13rd of November 2020:
  1. Added various naked runs
  2. Added Dark One Ritualist by virotmaglan
  3. Added Valguur + Oblivion Ritualist by tqFan
  4. Added sr105 screen to dmt’s 2H CT spellbinder
  5. Added sr120 and Mog + ravager’s kills to Maya’s conjurer
[v1.20] 12th of November 2020:
  • Added Naked CR and SR75-76 speedrun columns
[v1.12] 11th of November 2020:
  1. Added Aether Obilivion Bonemonger Apostate by tqFan
  2. Added Octavius Warlord by Nery
  3. Added Physical Forcewave Warlord by AlkamosHater
  4. Added Physical PS Archon by banana_peel
  5. Added missing calc to pierce Sabo
  6. Added solo arcanist TSS Battlemage by banana_peel
  7. Added SR95 screenshot to Trozan Warlock
  8. Added Lightning Mortars by nofika4u
  9. Added Aether Devastation Spellbinder
  10. Updated CR video for SS Breaker
[v1.11] 10th of November 2020 :
  1. added Elemental FoI Apostate by eard
  2. added Fire FW Warlord by Crit
  3. added Long CD trozan Druid by Crit
  4. added Allagast Vindi by Alexgoldfish
  5. added Light’s defender Vindi by Alexgoldfish
  6. added CR reference video for aether autism Infil
  7. updated Belgo Blademaster with crit’s version
  8. updated Cold SS Breaker by crit
  9. updated Stoneguard Warlord with AlkamosHater’s version
  10. added grey’s retal tax function
3 Likes

@Alkamoshater warlord came out in time to boost the class!

3 Likes

There is second one now, Stoneguard with 4:30 crucible time and 110 sr. Does another retal warlord but another build count? :stuck_out_tongue:

i’d say yes, it counts.
who’d have thought that retal is that op, right? seems like these sanctified bones are not nerfed enough.

2 Likes

Sweet, a nerf list!

38 Likes

I love the ranking and the entry criteria you chose (i.e. 6 min CR cuts down builds that don’t strive for damage at all but not too hard so you can still squeeze in your memes). It really motivates me to

  • push my builds in SR that I usually ignored to get more points

  • fine-tune the builds that are close to meet the reqs but not there yet

  • test the builds that I have only in Grim Tools form

Thanks!

4 Likes

Same, I had never bothered to push SR before but dragged the vindi on the list to a couple SR90 kills for those sweet gamifcation points. My crucible game is awful still so pushing those times isn’t going to get me anywhere soon

4 Likes

This is really cool! I dont have any endgame builds by your criteria, however the fact that someone is putting time into formulating a project like this is great for the community. As Grim Dawn nears end of development, I think more of this kind of stuff would be welcome and should be encouraged. Im sure this took a lot of time to get started and will take a lot of work to manage! Thank you for sharing this with us!

2 Likes

Ooh, clear-cut indexing. How inaccurate could it be?

Great job @grey-maybe and @Stupid_Dragon!
Based on reading the earlier comments i would say yeah, maybe adding another column for average CR times would be smth good for refference. I can provide a result on my binder for instance. Maybe even consider judging a build’s crucible performance by how big is the difference between the average time and lowest time? Or is that not relevant?

How many points for killing RektbyProtoss?

4 Likes

Not everyone posts average times in addition to peak times, so we’d be severely limiting the data set if we were to make it a requirement. We were struggling with finding a relevant data as is.

For same reason we’re not considering naked runs - not many people actually do that.

It was very fun to see people starting to tryhard for points in the spreashsheet in our discord, even though the mood slightly before that was “I don’t care about this game anymore” :rofl:

3 Likes

I think it’s time to nerf Wildblood again!

Better to say a buff list, since it more or less clearly might be seen what combos are bad or loose most points after the patch
No-no, I’m not talking about WB, my god. Who need this filthy SR95 Grasping Vines when every retal builds goes for SR100 / 1m Ravager / 5m crucible
Or those Full Ulzuin / Barrelsmith purifiers not having enough mana even with Harp.
Or awfully performing Archons…

3 Likes

Hot damn, SR 75 not worth a single point? I usually don’t run builds past that, unless they’re brick walls.

One Q, maybe I’ve missed it on rules, can you change items or devotions for different challenges or is it one and done build?

1 Like

One thing that might be worthy of consideration: Gear rarity should be a factor in a build’s performance score. Here is my thought process:

If a build with an epic set can complete all of the same feats as a build with a legendary set, is the epic set build not more impressive? Likewise, if a build is only powerful with 5 triple rares, should this be taken into consideration? I was thinking that some sort of score multiplier which reflects gear rarity could be relevant, since people DO use gear rarity to assess build performance. This might be difficult since your current system gives scores in increments of 0.5 points (from what I can see), but perhaps this could be food for thought.

2 Likes

you mean you finally want to decreep top power back to 5m+ or 6m+ crucible timers?

1 Like

title has wrong spellings

Edit: not anymore :smiley:

1 Like

Are build variants allowed? For example

  1. Cruci variant has 5 min 59s

  2. SR variant needs more Energy Regen and has less %Damage as a consequence and cannot achieve this time

Also variant with more Stun Res for SR. Or should it be precisely the same character?
I think I read about is somewhere or maybe it’s deja vu or I dreamt about it.

[edit] I didn’t notice Nery’s already asked that:


Then I’d like more points for not using sets as I make a lot of non-set meme builds with greens.
Isn’t not using a set impressive :wink: ?

1 Like