How much value is there now in resist overcap?

Now that sunder replaced, in my understanding, most of monster resist shreds - is it a good idea to drop character resists to 90% values and look at other stats to replace them? Or are 40%+ overcaps still the way to go for endgame?

GrimTools has been updated to 1.2 so you can look in the monster database and see what RR debuffs are still out there.

A few notable ones that I can identify:

Ultimately what your overcap needs to be depends on your build, whether you have Nullification/Cleansing Waters, what you like to farm, and what version of Ravager was chosen.

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I planned to propose a collaborative project where players could split up the GT monster database by letter and go over what RR is left in the game but I gave up on that idea after going through just A :smiley: There’s still a good bit of RR from enemies like various Wraiths (the types that Reaper summons, for instance), Ancient Gargoyles, Possessed mages, Wendigos, Skeletal Gargantuans/Monstrosities…enough that you can’t really drop your overcaps and be comfy, because a lot of these are just champion+ enemies that you’ll be meeting all over the place in endgame, it’s not just a boss here or there you can focus on, there will be whole packs of these bastards. So the RR overcap situation hasn’t really improved in the general sense. In the specific sense though, even though you can’t really drop overcaps, if your overcaps are not amazing, it’s not as big of a deal in specific encounters. Like, for instance, Reaper of the Lost no longer has “all RR” on his projectile novas, making him essentially completely toothless until the Wraiths are up. He’s gone from one of the most dangerous bosses to a pushover IMO, at least from the 5-6 times I fought him in SR so far. Kaisan no longer has RR on his long distance lightning bolt (which you will be more exposed to because of his Sunder bellyblast). This goes on. Not only does that mean your specific resistances against a boss’s damage type don’t need to be as stellar, because it’s not so much bosses but champions and heroes that mess with resists, it also means you won’t suddenly be getting completely assblasted by physical hitters, because the occurrence of all res reduction, which included physical, has gone down drastically.

From what little I’ve played so far, my general feel is that while resistance overcaps are still required for comfortable play, the overall threat level has gone down a lot. Pretty much unless you’re getting sundered, you can coast through SR at least 5 shards higher than you used to, cause sudden one-shots seem a lot less prevalent to me because your phys res is no longer being so heavily targetted by everyone. Plus phys damage overall supposedly went down at higher difficulties.

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There’s also RR reflected from reflect mobs. This can be unavoidable in the case of Spectral Wrath, for example.

If I had to give general simple guidance though, it would be this:

  • Elemental: 30%
  • Vitality: 40%
  • Aether: 30%

Everything else can be at 0%.

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Not really.

Just kill them in less than 3 seconds. :wink: Also important is the context in which those debuffs occur and what actual effect they will cause. If you won’t be receiving much if any pierce damage, then pierce doesn’t need to be overcapped.

That’s not something you can control in endgame. If you run up against a pack of 3 Ancient Gargoyle heroes accompanied by all sorts of little shits doing all sorts of damage types, you can’t just ignore the RR on bleed and acid etc. Even less so when the heroes themselves will have various damage modifications of their own, like Diseased, and there will be mutators adding extra flat damage to all enemies, including Pierce. The gargs also have way too much health to be killed that fast, especially at higher shards. Plus the use delay starts counting the moment they notice you, not when you engage. It can take you 1-2 seconds just to get in melee with them so the RR is not really avoidable for melee builds. Getting to around that 30 % overcap on everything is still the way to go.


Well think of it this way: In you had to worry about X general RR over Y time, in addition to that general -X% RR that you mentioned. But nobody overcapped their resists by 60% all-around. Now in 1.2, sunder was supposed to replace X general RR over Y time. But heroes don’t cast sunder. If you didn’t need to worry about not having all 60% overcap in, you don’t need to worry about not having all 30% overcap in 1.2.

That’s a flawed logic.

60 % overcaps weren’t really a thing in the past because you’d need two things to occur: you’d need to take a high % RR, of which there is only a selection, like Gargs, Wraiths, Cultists, Possessed mages etc. And then you’d need to eat another % RR from a different source, which means you’d need to roll a combination of these specific monsters within a chunk, or you’d need to eat a 30 flat RR which were only really coming from Nemeses. Those things do not overlap all that often, especially if you’re careful about Nemesis pulls in SR (I imagine in Crucible it was a more common occurrence but I don’t play that mode to know). So people stacked at least 30 % overcap to be proofed against either flat RR or % RR, and they accepted the risk of eating both by not overcapping more. But just cause flat RR went away doesn’t mean you now get to ignore % RR too. Running around with half of your resists not overcapped now no longer requires that two things coincide for you to be screwed. It now just takes one, an Ancient Gargoyle somewhere in the mix, which happens all the damn time. % RR is still prevalent enough that you need to account for it because even though there aren’t that many enemy types that have it, those enemy types that do have it appear a lot.

You can’t exactly just write off all Ancient Gargoyle encounters as a loss, that’s an encounter you have to have an answer for if you plan on doing any sort of endgame. And I’m working off of just Gargoyles right now, cause those were among the monster types I’ve gone over on GT. I’m sure there are more. You can’t just grit your teeth and accept you’ll be taking over twice the amount of damage for those fights. You wouldn’t wilingly expose yourself to 120 % Sunders from champion monsters if you could help it, would you?

Even outside of Gargoyles, if I were to take your general guideline of ignoring all overcaps except for Elemental, Vitality and Aether, I’d run up against Zantarin and suddenly his 30 % Acid RR shows up and ruins my day.

You can’t ignore overcaps unless you’re playing in a controlled environment where you hunt just one specific enemy in the campaign world.

I recall seeing that (or similar amounts) from a lot more types of mobs. It’s a shame we can’t check GT for historical mob info. Good call on the Zantarin acid though, I’ll give you that.

I think at the end of the day, it’s the player’s choice to make sacrifices with respect to rarer or less dangerous situations. Taking twice the amount of pierce for example doesn’t necessarily mean twice the amount of damage overall. So maybe that can be neglected in favor of more HP, more lifesteal, etc. I do recall back in many of the “Top 20 Softcore” builds didn’t have 30% overcapped overall but rather focused on the ones that really mattered.

As far as general guidance goes…I guess I’m starting to be skeptical of the very idea of general guidance. Because even something like high investment in Inquisitor Seal can mean you definitely don’t need overcap in Bleeding.

Yeah that kinda bums me too, especially since is going to be permanently available for play, but people who have builds in 9.8 are stuck using 1.2 GTs where all sorts of shit is going to be wrong. Hoping Dammitt has some plans on archiving 9.8 and making it a thing you can just switch to in the top right corner. No clue if he’s working on that or if it was even suggested to him though.

Edit: never mind, Dammitt is way ahead of it, there’s a toggle option in the top left so we can check 9.8 info on monsters and everything :slight_smile:

Very nice.

Alright, it didn’t take long to find a hero mob with X for Y seconds RR:

Yeah but while that is technically correct (the best kind of correct), you’ve fought these things too. Stationary plant, with slow, mortar-trap like projectile that takes over a second to arrive at destination, with no direct travel line so you literally step in any direction and it misses you, and on a mob type that dies to a gentle breeze. That’s not generally a monster you’ll be sweating cause it will stack RR on you on top of % RRs. They were a worry with Gargabol (who summons/ed the same sort of thing) but not when mixed in with other enemies. You could take them on at your convenience.

Anyway, you could scour the whole of GT and find some monster that fits the criteria of mobility and flat RR. The point wasn’t that those didn’t exist, it was more that they weren’t an issue because people stacked overcaps anyway, so the only time they could be problematic was when they were mixed in with % RRs as well for the two to combine and break through the overcap. The stacking is no longer a concern, as now you’d need to stack different % RR debuffs, but you still need to account for those % RR debuffs existing, and for that it’s safer to have a 20-30 % overcap on everything just in case IMO.

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Maybe it’s also an idea to bring to Crate’s attention that these Ancient Gargoyles, Wendigo Marroweaters, etc. are perhaps a bit too strong in their RR given their champion status.

I dunno, I did think they were kinda bullshit before, what with their massive RR for everything and disgusting area debuff (-health and speed). A good number of deaths I’ve had over the last 6 months when I was testing builds was because of these bastards. But with what little experience I’ve had in 1.2 so far, I feel like the overall threat has gone down (or at least SR seems to have shifted where I can do SR75-80 easier than before). Phys res is less targetted due to no flat RRs, a lot of generic enemies have lost sources of cc, phys damage has gone down, mutators no longer fuck with player’s damage output or max health… In that environment I guess I find it kinda refreshing to have a few enemies that are still a pain in the ass, cause otherwise it feels to me like a lot of the difficulty has been smoothed down to a point where if a thing doesn’t have sunder, dispell or isn’t a healer/regenerator I just don’t care what it does.

Some of the player mutators are kind of silly. +2% max resistance anyone? That is like at minimum -10% total damage. 0,2 to 0,18 damage. With some builds the effect is even greater. We need those flat RR skills on monsters to keep us on our toes. Sunder is not really that bad on some defensive builds. But the -physical resistance keeps us alert or in my case sometimes dead.

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Huh, I was under the impression that non-unique monsters no longer apply RR

But according to this thread some lower tier monsters (Possessed Archmage, Ancient Gargoyle etc.) still do? Or are their GT pages not updated yet? I’m confused.

I agree that res overcaps are still needed, not only to get the most out of the +2% max res mutator, but also to deal with Gargoyles, Zantarin, and other unpredictable monster combinations that can still shred your resists when you least expect it.

But I’d like to find out what’s the “recommended value” for overcap resistances for 1.2.

Previously, for, there was this thread that recommended around 25% overcap on everything (a bit more on aether, a bit less on bleeding). But these values feel too high for 1.2.
It would be interesting to have a record of players who died in high SR shards due to RR (and which type), so we could come up with a consensus about the recommended overcaps for 1.2

I think it’s still 25