I get that this has already been shut down....but components on 2H weapons

Fluff, please, please get a new PC, if you can.

Like all my videos yes. Especially when I record.

You wouldn’t believe how old some pieces of my PC are.

Good practice though. Can’t wait to see what crucible or the new mode will be like after upgrading and having more than 10 fps.

Also leveling without crashing, I will be so spoiled:eek:

@ Autentist. I shall. Hopefully before new xpac

You’ll love it. Having got my new one up and running I can actually watch the intro videos and my GD screenshots end up in my GD screenshot folder. :smiley:

I stopped liking two handed weapons after I hit 393k with a two hander and 253 or 258 (don’t remember the value now) with only one one handed weapon.

Two handed weapons are shit because their damage range is too big (in some cases), therefore we can hit for less than with a one handed weapon. The first step to balance two handers would be reducing the damage ranges. For example, Leviathan has 130 - 812 damage, so you can literally hit the same amount of damage (or sometimes less) as with one handed weapons (if you’re not lucky enough). The damage could be set to ~400 - 812 and add some gimmicks to the weapon (do such things to every two handed weapon), for example make it a very slow weapon (but then the damge range should be lowered even more, for example 650 - 812 damage), like instead of 1.46 attacks, lower it to 1.0 and add some more tankiness to it (for example increase physical resist to 14 - 21 and HP to 7 - 12). Some two handers actually have their own gimmicks, like Shar’Zul’s Worldeater, where it is a caster weapon and a fighting weapon (casting and attack speed bonus), has resists (chaos) and adds +2 to demo and 1 in soldier (not saying the gimmick of this weapon is something that makes this particular weapon good/OP). You could also add some special functions to two handed weapons to make them at least attractive, for example, Leviathan could convert all damage to physical (for example 35% all damage to physical damage), so it could be used for any character in the game if they want a two handed weapon and focus on physical damage. One of the best two handed weapons (in my opinion) is Guardian of Death’s Gates, because it’s a totally universal item, where you can build it on a summoner and a fighter (melee character, non summoner, however you wanna call it). This item grants life steal, all damage and also reduces resists passively. Pretty cool gimmick and one of the more viable two handed weapons. Bane of Winter king is also a… okay? weapon. For both, casters and fighters and also makes you wanna get the Nemesis relic to buff your pet (if it even scales this way :P). We could even say something about Temporal Arcblade but I don’t know if there’s much to talk about it. Just has good cool down reduction and cost reduction. Other two handers are bad.

Buffing Kraken only could solve some of those problems, like instead giving attack speed and HP, make it give % increased damage and something else (damage reduction because I love being tanky this is a joke). The 10% AS and 180 HP is literally worthless, literally worth picking if you need the 3 blues and 2 reds. Could bother trying % reduction to all resistances (same mechanic as Viper has, but instead of adding something more to that, make it 35% reduction or even slightly more). Increasing maximum all resists is not a bad idea, like 3% (although this might be too strong).

There are many options, but yeah, I belive Crate is afraid they’ll break something and make people go only two handers. :stuck_out_tongue:

Other two handers are bad.

I won’t let my soulrend be forgotten! :stuck_out_tongue:

Jokes aside - it’s agreed then? Big need for big buffs for big weapons?

There are many options, but yeah, I belive Crate is afraid they’ll break something and make people go only two handers. :stuck_out_tongue:

How so? It’s a scaling issue isn’t it? I’m not proposing they make 2H one shot nemeses. Besides, they can always implement these buffs in a stepwise fashion and watch how the meta evolves.

The 10% AS and 180 HP is literally worthless

Uh, what? % AS is probably the most precious stat for two handers (the 2H builds that use attack speed though, which are the majority), specially because of their speed penalty. Calling this node worthless is just wrong.

It gives like 6% AS to a soulrend weilder iirc. If it was flat 10% (if you have 120 AS and get this node you go to 130) then yeah, I’d say it’s pretty good. Or if it was 10% total AS increase (what I mean: 150 + 10% = 165 or 150 * 1.1).

That’s because of the speed penalty of two handed weapons. This also happens with one handed weapons, where 10% is technically like 8%.

Again, AS is the most precious stat of two hander builds that use that stat. Any place that gives AS is a godsend.

You know what, you’re probably right.

I’ve only done 1 2H build, and that was my soulrend breaker.

I remember reading somewhere though that slow attacking weapons benefit less from attack speed bonuses. Thus, I’ve always operated under the assumption that stacking damage would be more effective than stacking AS.

Hence my proposal to change the %bonus to something these big, slow weapons can benefit more from.

You just told me something I knew all the time. Titan Quest had the same feature with other kinds of weapons (there were no melee two handed weapons, but items had various AS). I always rather get OA than AS on two handed weapons, because AS is not as efficient. And I believe many people do the same (but not all).

About one handers and AS, most of one handers get 10% if you have 10% AS bonus. Swords and daggers, iirc, always get at least 10 for 10.

Actually, most people complain when a two hander weapon doesn’t have AS. People would rather a two hander had AS than OA.

So, i have no clue on what you mean is not as efficient. It is efficient because i have tested it. I have some 2H builds with 170% - 180% and they perform better than other builds that much lower AS but better OA and other stats. That’s because i can attack way faster.

Last, there can never be “flat AS gain”. All AS gain is under the speed penalty. So this request is pretty much impossible. And again, one handed weapons don’t always gain 10% AS when you gain 10% AS.

For me it is not the case of balance. Having minus 1 component is just not fun.

Actually, most people complain when a two hander weapon doesn’t have AS. People would rather a two hander had AS than OA.

So, i have no clue on what you mean is not as efficient. It is efficient because i have tested it. I have some 2H builds with 170% - 180% and they perform better than other builds that much lower AS but better OA and other stats. That’s because i can attack way faster.

Last, there can never be “flat AS gain”. All AS gain is under the speed penalty. So this request is pretty much impossible. And again, one handed weapons don’t always gain 10% AS when you gain 10% AS.

Would I be correct in saying that you believe that 2H weapons are fine the way they are?

I’m a little lost because the direction of this thread has shifted away from the buffs I believe 2H deserve, to the efficacy of AS vs OA on 2H. :stuck_out_tongue:

Forgive me if I come across as condescending, but the reason why %AS was brought up in the first place was to highlight the limitations of kraken.

Even if AS is a valued stat, it still restricts the diversity of 2H builds.

For me it is not the case of balance. Having minus 1 component is just not fun.

May I press you for a more constructive response? Why isn’t it fun?

The huge min/max damage gap applies to maces mostly. Axes and swords seem fine in that regard.
Buffing Kraken to make 2h builds more ‘attractive’ would kill any sense of variety. Personally i wouldn’t mind it, but as far as game design goes… well, crate knows best.
Maybe buffing base damage by, lets say 15%, would do the trick? :slight_smile:

Buffing Kraken to make 2h builds more ‘attractive’ would kill any sense of variety

How do you mean? Right now, kraken is only good for smash-'n-bash 2H builds (or so it seems from my end).

To use me as an example, I have no incentive to pick up kraken if I’m running a CDR soulrend breaker. I would sooner pick up rattosh.

Having it give more all-rounded stats wouldn’t kill build variety, would it?

How do you mean? Right now, kraken is only good for smash-'n-bash 2H builds (or so it seems from my end). Rifles really benefit the most from it sadly

To use me as an example, I have no incentive to pick up kraken if I’m running a CDR soulrend breaker. I would sooner pick up rattosh. well it fits easy with TD and crit bonus matters. What woull you do with rattosh? :slight_smile:

Others already pointed one of my main issues with two handed weapons, the base damage gap. That needs to be reduced in a significant way because it just makes two handed weapons damage more erratic than everything else (specially Leviathan, that’s a 600 base damage gap).

The other is the components but the current viable solutions can’t be made without a major overhaul of the engine.

To be fair, any build that spams an attack as their main damage source, always goes for max possible speed, either if it’s going for cast speed or attack speed.

CDR Soulrend Spellbreaker doesn’t care for attack speed because as far as i know, it’s a Shadow Strike build. And that can’t be spammed no matter how high your attack speed is. Maybe it’s another build i don’t know.

HP, DA, OA, resist. Iono.

Seems better to me.

Mmm, not quite. The AS penalty in TQ (and in Early Access GD) was additive, not multiplicative. Only during GD’s Early Access period was this changed, to much contention, as it made 2H significantly worse than it already was.

Forcewave actually gets a significant detriment to casting speed via 2H. Or perhaps the other way around. Ninetrix knows better than I do, as he had been complaining about it. As I can understand it, Tremor isn’t as efficient, speed-wise, as you may think.

Think thisdescribes damage gap and animation with 2h well enough

@Ceno: Doesn’t the same happen with CT regardless of that you use? They both feel slower than they should at 190+ CS