So right now it seems that the survivability afforded by Physique trumps anything offered by Cunning and Spirit. The health, regen, armor reqs just make Phys too attractive for higher difficulties and HC to my understanding. What if the other stats offered something for survivability (and Physique offered something for offense, to balance it out)?
Say Spirit gave innate resists and Cunning gave innate dodge chance, and Physique added innate attack speed? Would that be sufficient to end the Physique meta, or at least open up new and interesting avenues for stat spreads?
Unless the resists include a hefty amount of physical resistance, Spirit would never stack up. Losing out on HP for standard resists which can’t be overcapped significantly enough to prevent spike damage would mean casters further fall into obscurity or gimmicks with CDR/Mirror.
Dodge is a viable defense, but given it currently isn’t enabled, it would be hard to put in.
Attack speed is king already, so phys would probably serve to become even more necessary.
If they change it at all, I want a full attrib-respec for characters, because I cba to level new ones because the game drastically changes. Already deleted a bunch coming from EA because you didn’t need full phys for Veteran.
That’s my views! (All for changes, because it of course kills variety as is)
Well, look at shadow dance for an example. It may not be called “dodge” but, it’s still a % to avoid melee and projectile attacks. so i believe that could work
And yes phys resist would help in this case for spirit but, not to much, phys resist can be op if a build is geared correctly.
Also afaik there is no way Crate could do a attribute reset given the fact that our toons are not saved on a server and are saved locally on each of our computers.
Also, True about the avoid. I forget about that. That could work and be interesting, but if you have ways to overcap that or something, then you just run around being ridiculous.
Pure spirit with a hp pool of like 5-7k in Ult just sounds like a recipe for an aneurysm. It would need something to help with spikes, since casters already get crippled by ACDTH on non-%weap damage attacks.
Totally forgot about that potion I do suppose that could work.
Yeah, i agree with the rest of what you said.
This is a complicated situation, i’m pretty sure Crate knows that attribute distribution is off but, its hard to say what would really even things out imo. :undecided:
What if there was a skill that made it so that for a certain period of time, caster of said skill could not take more than a % of his max health in damage per strike? Getting a little off topic here, but that kind of spell effect would be fantastic as a spike mitigator for caster types.
If there were a quick, easy, and satisfactory solution, it probably would have been done already. In my view, balancing the attributes would require no less than an almost-full rebalancing of the game. And it probably won’t happen without an expansion to go along with it.
Personally my preferred solution to this problem is to make the damage bonuses from cunning/spirit multiplicative with other damage bonuses.
the main problem with these attributes (CUN and SPI) is that they have to compete with the other abundance of +% dmg types all other the board, from gear and devotion. same happen to +% dmg type skills, which are condemned to bring something else (oa, as, cs…) or be ignored (sorry Merciless Repertoire )
but while i’d love Doarchet’s solution, as he said it’s probably too late for such a huge change of the game.
You don’t need a potion for this. Resetting attribute points could work in exactly the same way as you’re resetting your skill or devotion points - by using the Spirit Guide.
Also I fail to see what this has to with toons being saved on a server or locally …
That could work too But as said before me, these changes probably wont happen anyways.
As for the topic of getting a full attribute reset, all i was saying was GD is not on servers like PoE, if GGG makes a huge change they can just give everyone the option to reset, sense everyone’s data is saved on the servers. Crate can’t hack into our PC’s and change our toons for us
And herein is why it won’t happen. An attribute respec is (hopefully) not coming, and the volume of players now is too vast on a finished product to drastically rebalance anything all at once. It’s one thing to alter item or skill stats. It’s another thing to change permanent properties about a character. We could get away with it in a mod (cough Cornucopia) but it’s not something that can happen in a finished product.
Anywho, these are the equations that can be influenced by Physique/Cunning/Spirit:
What if Physique gives twice the actual effect?
We could reach same “tankyness” on Ultimate and have half of the Physique point to spend on Cunning or Spirit.
Maybe physique is not efficient enough, maybe is so inefficient that we need a lot of them.
I think people tend to forget that you can already create a Warlock or Sorceror with 1000 points into both Physique and Spirit due to Inner Focus and good double rolled rare items. Stat gain/ mastery level also generates huge differences between everything that has arcanist/occultist in them vs. anything that has soldier.
I must also point out that multiplicative algorithms applied to the spirit stat will create unwanted consequences such as:
AAR Warlocks being able to demolish the Mad Queen in 5 seconds.
Phantasmal Blades Spellbreakers outperforming any other caster in the game.
Pyromancers that will throw one single BWC and destroy an entire Gladiator wave.
^PLS Don’t. Even a small boost to the benefits provided by the spirit stat will generate important positive consequences for casters without having to reinvent the wheel - viz. a practice that should not AND will not happen in the end.
so you make the stat everyone already takes because it is best even better ? Surely that will stop people from doing so
It’s not that it is so bad you need so much of it, it is so good that the others cannot compete with it… granted, if you made it even better there eventually is a somewhat diminishing return (once you are unkillable, you do not really get more unkillable), but oversaturation cannot really be the reason why we stop investing in it…
I think it’s a largely well-accepted belief that Physique is vastly better than the other stats, not only because of the minimal gains from investing in Cunning and Spirit, but also because of how supremely much of it you need to equip items.
E: Frankly ALL of the stats are pretty bad, but Physique items top out at 970 Physique. Spirit tops out around 700, and Cunning around 500. Why would you ever go higher than 700ish Spirit and 500ish Cunning for minimal damage returns, as opposed to linear and inefficient health returns?
When you said good, I read mandatory. I’m guessing that people are spending a lot of points in Physique because if you don’t, you will have troubles regarding survivability on Ultimate.
Getting “unkillable” is just half of the job, you need to kill mobs also.
I do suppose that could work.
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