I'm in a strange place right now

Grim Dawn General Discussion
1

This all dates back to me starting to play hardcore. After quite some hours in with my first character, actually we started to play this game mostly in co-op with two friends, I kinda got fed up with my character having a lot of deaths on him. I was just playing extremely greedy and reckless, also didn’t know about a lot of game’s mechanics at first, usual begginer stuff.

After my two friends stopped playing the game (usual casuals with short attention spam). One of them even started cheating in the meantime, you know playing co-op with some cheating russians, obtaining non-legit items and similar shit, I think it’s needles to say how much I despise stuff like that, especially in primarily single-player games, in such games I even find stuff like this extremely childish and not worthy of a grown person. I would go even further and connect it to infant and bad personality, but ok let’s leave it at that.

Disputes between us started, which were definitely not only the consequence of playing Grim Dawn, well that would probably be just childish and stupid on my part. But bottom line, after some time we stopped playing together, but I was the only one that still enjoyed the game and I couldn’t stop playing it, however even I started to get a bit bored with the game and wanted addictional challenge, so at first I started to play with different builds and so-called “death rules”. I did not want to have for example more that 3 or 5 deaths on a character, it bothered me extremely. So you can probably guess what was my next step soon after, I finally started playing hardcore.

And here comes the struggles and suffereing of a lot of hardcore guys, bet let me admit that I was never able to take it lightly or just “deal with it”. I’ve lost a numerous characters in hardcore, and I’ve only been able to finish the base game on ultimate with one of them, that was also the only character that I’ve been able to get to level 100, I was even close to completing the Octavius set that she would be using. I was revered and on nemesis with all but one faction… But one day I just mindlessly marched into the foundation of corpses to fight Rashalga, even though I made a decision to only go after super-bosses once I complete my end-game BiS gear. You know the usual scenario, boss is at very low health, you get a bit greedy and anxious, boom, a hardcore player’s favourite screen appears, and that’s it. Countless hours of completionist and dedicated gameplay thrown away, even hours of farming nemesis bosses and crucible.

I was devastated, I just cannot bring myself to take shit like this lightly. I gotta admit I fell into serious depression for quite some days, even weeks. I mean ok I’ve been suffering from depression for years and Grim Dawn definitely isn’t the sole reason of my depression, well that would be some serious first world problems wouldn’t they? Nah it’s not that extremely serious, but it’s still serious tho. I gotta admit a couple weeks passed after loosing that character, and whenever I think about it I’m still heartbroken. Not lying, it was almost like loosing a long-time lover or a partner.

What I did afterward was starting to play a couple of other characters, but all of the remaining ones was only on veteran, my highest was around level 45 and was a pet character on top of that, and I never really enjoyed playing that character because I just hate playing with pets, when I made it I wanted to try it anyway but could never bring myself to enjoy it. I always enjoyed playing s&b tanks the most, and my character that advanced the furthest was exactly that.

Right now I have over 1000 hours in this game, and I’m heartbroken. I deleted of all my remaining characters, with some of them I even died on purpose/made a suicide. It was all out of pure sadness and depression, I couldn’t enjoy the game anymore. I just cannot bring myself to play the same exact content for the trillionth time, it is just getting me bored to death, it’s killing me. The additional added burden is that I’m the type of guy who wants to always have the entire map cleared and all sidequests completed on all difficulties, which is extremely time-consuming, you can only imagine how much time was invested in that favourite character. I even caught myself contemplating stupid thoughts about cheating to bring my character back and even how to revent time - LOL. Haha it’s actually getting a bit tragicomical when I think about it now. It’s like I want to cry for my character and laugh at myself at the same time, it’s a strange feeling alltogether.

Yea like I said, I deleted all of my remaining low level guys, I hate them I cannot bring myself to playing them again. Some of you will probably say, but why play hardcore then, just go back to softcore. Easier said than done, I just cannot do it, after so many hours of being a hardcore player, playing HC is the only thrill that I still have in the game. I could never ever bring myself to play this game again through all the same content and even on softcore.

I tried playing a couple of my oldest softcore characters only recent but I just couldn’t do it. I was standing in Devil’s Crossing, looking in the inventory, feeling depressed as hell, that lasted for a minute or two, shut down the game.

I want to uninstall right now

Perhaps with Forgotten Gods

Depression

Just wanted to share it lol

Bye bye:(:stuck_out_tongue:

2

Hi there.

Your story is a bit similar to my own, except the depression part. I perfectly understand that going back to SC after getting used to HC is a shitty option - you’d still feel like something is off. Still if you ever come back consider playing SC instead. Playing HC while in depression would only further deepen it.

Cheers, hope you get better.

3

Sending you some internet love and hugs

Strong of you to share your story with us, I have much respect for that

4

Thanks for the feedback, as you probably noticed, the only reason for my thread was to share it, nothing more, nothing less. So every feedback is welcomed, I’m not really looking for suggestions or anything, perhaps only for different experiences and viewpoints.

There is another problem with playing both on HC and SC, and that is there is no shared stash between those 2 options. And I’m not saying that’s wrong or anything, I’m only saying it’s already time consuming enough to grind for gear on either option, so in my opinion there is really no valid reason to play both

Either you are softcore or hardcore, my opinion is once you dedicate to one option you should probably stay true to it. Also if you go back to SC after a loot (notice what I did here lol) of time spent in HC on top of the time spent with you character building (that you’ve lost with the death of that character), you also technicaly and practicaly loose your entire shared stash that you’ve managed to accumulate. My HC shared stash is currently full of legendaries and I still lost some on my character stash of my nearly maxed-out toon.

So I could say that my viewpoint and serious advice to anyone that is considering hardcore is, if you won’t be able to take deaths (even in high level) relatively lightly, just don’t do it or you’ll learn the hard way like myself. Also the other, and perhaps even greater problem is the ease of switching back to SC. This is not at all an easy thing to do, hardcore is definitely the best every arpg has to offer (from obvious reasons), the biggest being the immersion. Hardcore takes role-playing to another level, and role-playing is the greatest reason for me even playing arpg’s, it’s also why I was never able to like crucible - crucible is just the horde mode to grind for items and stuff.

I was never able to like those “crucible viable” builds that novadays seems to be the main focus of the forum build compendiums. The phrase crucible farmers is being thrown around all the time. Don’t get me wrong, those are indeed very powerful builds, but you almost never see those people play HC, and for a reason.

Another great downside of HC is character flexibility, not all builds will be very HC viable.

In my opinion it all boils down to what you really want to have in this game. If you wanna experience the most this game has to offer with various build possiblities, gear etc., HC is definitely not the way to go imo, except if you’re extremely good/lucky, but I wouldn’t rely on it for very long.

For example, I have over 1000 hours invested in the game, I still haven’t experienced everything this game has to over, of course that is the consequence of going hardcore.

But I’m like that in every game I just cannot help myself, I always pick the hardest stuff possible. I still remember how I couldn’t finish Dead Space 2’s hardest challenge (finishing the game with only 3 checkpoints). Then at some point I just stopped playing it, I just couldn’t bring myself to ever launch it again…

5

Not being able to enjoy something that should be fun/used to be fun before is a strange state to be in indeed. Like running towards happyness on a treadmill … you end up exhausted and frustrated. All part of your depression, of course. I know it well.

Don´t really know what else to say, except maybe that I hope sharing helped you a bit. :undecided:

6

Great observation. I’m glad there haven’t yet been any opinions in this thread going along the lines like just play softcore, or games are meant to be enjoyed you’ll enjoy it more in softcore.

I completely agree with the statement that games are meant to be enjoyed, the problem is as many different types of people, as many different forms of enjoyment. To some the enjoyment in GD would come for example from building as many gladiator crucible viable builds as possible (in softcore). Whoever could do that consistently in HC is a (primordial) god imo haha.

To others the greatest enjoyment would be to perhaps only have 1 super complete build (perhaps even with super rare MI’s), who was able to complete all content this game has to offer on HC. That was definitely always my goal. The problem is the repetitive nature of this game, of course when I played this game for the first time I enjoyed it most just in terms of exploration, storyline etc. The enjoyment after 1k hours for me can possibly still come only from completing the ultimate challenges this game has to offer, nothing else. And having to grind for countless hours just to get there again for the 27th time is a bit hard indeed. That’s why I probably won’t be able to start a new character until the new expansion, but even when that happens I’ll still have to grind the old content again. Plus the HC will be even more dangerous cause we won’t have experience with all the new bosses and stuffs.

Hehe maaan, the HUGE first world problems we are facing sometimes,

yea I know, I know, you don’t even have to tell me hehe

7

We can not blaim the forum for not having “enough” HC-viable builds. If a player thinks that his/her HC build should be included in the compendium just submit it and ask the responsible member of the build compendium to perhaps add a section of “Reasonable HC viable builds” or something like that. The forum is driven by fans who share information in their free time.

8

Don´t fall into the “You aren´t allowed to feel bad, because others have it worse” trap. That bs never helped anyone.

Just saying. :stuck_out_tongue:

9

I remember I lost 3 absolutely similiar Witch Doctors playing HC in D3 (iirc it was a dart build with a lot of little fetishes spewing darts with you), because in D3 a lot of the builds relied on a good support from party members. In the end, I really coudln’t understand why even play HC in a game where player’s skill is just a small part of the game and a lot of it is just variance.

Imo, HC in arpgs is closer to gambling rather than to wanting to complete games at higher dificulties. I remember completing first Serious Sam game on Serious dificulty - that was freaking hardcore - just a player and his skills. Hardcore in a single player arpg with all your save files on your computer and with escape button abuse is just not really that hardcore.

10

Agree 100%. As if I’m almost fearful that someone will accuse me of doing something/feeling something that I “shouldn’t” based on certain “objective levels” of emotion one should express in certain situations.

That’s still acting under the premise that videogaming is a minor/almost childish affair in modern western society, when on the other hand we all know that haven’t been the case for quite some time now. As games are getting more and more complex I think also the complexity of impact that they can leave on the players will be getting more and more severe in the future.

Let’s not ge too philosophical here, but yes bottom line is I definitely agree with you.

As I’m constantly in fear that someone will “attack” me with the “you really shouldn’t feel that way” argument.

But on the other hand, if such an argument would happen to be well structured and put together, then I would love to hear it anyway. Just not the usual generic stuff if you know what I mean.

11

You got 1000 hours out of it. Maybe it’s time to move on, or loosen up your stance on cheating/modding.

I’m probably somewhere around 6k hours in and still enjoying myself, but a good deal about that is from mixing it up.

If I want to GDstash a character in to test a build, I do.
If I want to play 100% legit self-found from scratch I do.
If I want to twink out my low level character with gear from higher level characters farming sessions I do.
If I want to play self-found except cheat in crafting mats because I am not in a mood to go through the crafting process, I do.

I had to compromise to keep the longevity of the game alive for me. I also can’t bare hardcore.

If not, then hey you got 1000 hours out of it man. That’s more entertainment value for your money’s worth than most anything else can provide. Perhaps time to just move on to the next title.

12

I think that is actually a very good argument, an excellent even. Of course in certain situations this could be also used as a cover up/an excuse for your own incompetence, but I still believe that you are correct on this one.

I think this all boils down to the fact that arpg’s are way less based on a player’s skill level than most other genres, well some small level of skill is still needed sometimes, but it’s still at least 80% less than in most competitive grade games out there. Even though it is definitely possible to minimize the risk of dying, I think death is still very much a possility for every single build in certain situations. It’s interesting how in my opinion the game is way more dangerous toward early game than in ultimate when you character is way better geared and you usually know what’s happening.

Still I would attribute let’s say 99% of my deaths in HC to some stupidity from my part that was not a game’s design fault. At least in Grim Dawn. But yes I could definitely say why you could call playing arpg’s on HC gambling. I remember one of my friends who used to be big on arpg’s and especially D2 in the past sometimes said sometihing along those lines: When you play an arpg on hardcore you accept that you are going to loose that character at some point in the future.

But the problem is how hard should the game really be? If the game would easier, then what would even be in store for the “normal” softcore player? Where would the challenge be?

I think that’s one of the main problems of Grim Dawn, the lack of endgame content as many others have already pointed out. That’s why I have big hopes for Forgotten Gods and the “Shattered realm”.

13

My condolences to you and your deceased GD hardcore characters.

From my point of view, when you seriously wants to play hardcore mode in dungeon crawler arpg, you have to consider these points:

  1. The game becomes a roguelike game.

  2. A roguelike game means, you’re not focused on the end game.
    You’re focusing on surviving by staying alert at all times, and make do with what you got (farming and leveling is more risky, your survival often depends on the stat rolls of the loot you got).

  3. A simple mistake or relapse of concentration in a routine farming session that you do all the time can kill your hc character.

  4. Be prepared for the mental breakdown that can happen if you lose your hc character not because of being defeated by reasonably more powerful enemies, but because of a simple/stupid mistake on your part that should be avoidable when you pay attention like you usually do.
    (Dark Souls, Nuclear Throne, Darkest Dungeon hurts me a lot in that regard… but eventually I shrugged off those painful memories and starts anew).

I usually take a break from those roguelike games when the losses hit me to hard. And play relaxing games like The Sims, SimCity or Roller Coaster Tycoon.

The pain will be dulled eventually, and you’ll think you’ll be ready for another chance. But most importantly of all, try to enjoy the experience.

14

Loving this reply also. Once again, that was the intent of the thread, just to hear your opinions, how do you like to play the game and what do you mainly look for not just in Grim Dawn but arpg’s and perhaps games in general. The best argument was that of longevity/moving on. Longevity is one of the most important factors in predominantly single player games, the methods of achieving it are definitely different among players.

Once you reach the point where you’re just mindlessly grinding finding little to no joy in playing anymore, I think that’s the point where game’s longevity for you has ended and you should move to something else. That’s why I’m saying I’m giving this game another shot with the “complete edition”. In the meantime I’ll try to find something else. Like you said this game already gave me 1k hours of (not purely) enjoyment but still, it was definitely worth the money.

15

You could view you’re shared stash as your lost chars legacy. Give it some more time, perhaps until the expansion arrives. Maybe you could start a new s&b tank (or a something else) and use some of those items you’ve accumulated. The new Oathkeeper seems a perfect fit for your preferred style.

Wow, I always wondered who would subject themselves to that mode. I died so many times in that game. :eek: Remember the stick-a-needle-into-your-own-eye-scene? I would have used one of the saves before that. :smiley:

That’s what would happen to me if I played HC, only sooner. I’m too damn reckless. No matter how careful I am, sooner rather than later I’ll become too sure of myself and bite it.

[Of topic, sort of] Case in point, I played Dark Souls 3 yesterday for the first time. I jumped in with a character I called “Test” and defeated the boss of the starting area on my first try, no problem. Great, I thought and researched a build I wanted to do, created a new character to play the game for real and wiped on the guy about 5 times in a row. I even managed to lose my souls because I became impatient with killing all the hollows on the way to the boss. :eek:

16

I’m not going to say that I know exactly how you feel, but I can share my tweaked GD philosophy; originally I was very intent on going HC in GD.

I haven’t played PoE recently, but I did play it for a number of years since beta and 99% of that was hardcore. Even though rubber-banding was the main killer for HC, it was intense and I loved it. Upon reflection, the reason I likely didn’t get too overwhelmed by dying is that the chat was just…full…of RIP reports. So as frustrating as it was to Rip after a lot of investment, you didn’t feel isolated.

However, there was one instance where I found a perfect BiS item and ripped because I was doing a happy dance and had neglected to completely clear the map. I was pissed for a month. I laugh now, but then…ahhhh.

Now, things I realized about GD:

-it is single player. That means no rubber-banding, but also no real sense of the HC climate and shared loss.

-equipment is insanely critical for toons. And arbitrary- both in design and RNG.
Certain class combos have inherent HP, resists etc… but many do not. And gear has to fill the gaps. RNG means that many builds will either never see the items they want or you’ll have to accept the limitation of faction, luck or a farmer toon (or trade). Which means limited experimentation in game - especially once you reach Ultimate -> because who wants to do over the earlier 2 difficulties again? Not me.

Even in SC, I’m at the point where I am exasperated at the RNG implementation of GD. So for me HC would just be drudgery: both in RNG grind and in repeat story grind. And even if I’d reached a 100 HC - I’m pretty sure I’d no longer be playing by now.

PoE gear had an impact, but the skill tree and accessible skill gems, potions, etc, and inherent trade - actually made for an overall less grindy/work feeling imho. You didn’t get BiS items, but it was easy to find and/or trade for a pretty strong build based on your tree and everything is MP from day one. There is less complete reliance on gear which allows for a better character distribution in HC (referring to the node paths; you still focus on HP, etc- but much of that is in the nodes).

GD works great with controller and limited hardware resources. That’s what keeps me.

17

Another great reply thanks. But at this point I will stop replying to everything otherwise this thread will get too cluttered. Let me just point out again that you guys have been extremely helpful in my hard times over the game I love(d). It is far from my only game that I invested so much in and at the end felt kinda defeated by it. I must remember that after a certain ammount of time I always stop caring/something new and interesting comes along. And I definitely feel that’s only right and natural in gaming as well as other things in life.

You also gotta understand that recent few weeks haven’t been too kind to longtime arpg players in general…

18

Problem is what’s HC viable for experienced player might not be so much for HC beginner. And ofcourse it is experienced players who post guides.

19

Like adoomgod I have a lot of hours as well (10k+ give or take an unknown amount of afk hours) and like adoomgod I also can be flexible about how I want to approach the game depending on my mood.

All these hours and I haven’t even done much with mods yet except test a few here and there awhile back. BUT once I get tired of Vanilla… there are lots of cool mods to play with and there will probably be more by that time.

I understand the HC pain… I play only SC these days but if my character dies it bugs the shit out of me and his continued lifespan is threatened as a result as I just may delete his ass. It has happened hundreds of times already :wink:

Also, sometimes I just don’t play GD for awhile and I’ll fiddle with other games or other activities until the GD bug bites hard enough to bring me back. So don’t let it get to ya. Be flexible.

20

Then do yourself a favor and be thankful that Grim Dawn saves exist on your hard drive and swear to never do it again and be done with the pain. GD is a game, designed to give you pleasure. Let it do it’s job, bring your toon back but keep it hardcore and uninstall whatever you use to change that 1 to a 0.

Or try a mod, if you are also sad cause you do not have a phone, you might try Ram’s GD mod that is loosely based on a precursor game in that series.