Yes /10char
1 Like
I really would like to see the tested Feral Hunger builds that you tested.Like SR clear speed and bosses kills.Especially SnB onesâŚ
I can at least vouch for feral s&b, cause I saw banana make 2 buulds out of it and nothing from the others 
Avalanche for gun+shield is interesting I donât think Iâve seen it and I certainly havenât tried it yet.
Hereâs one from banana. I donât think thereâs a SR vid. Itâs already slow-ish for his standards but I also havenât seen another pure aa s&b aside from the physical version of this.
what modifiers is bosting FH wd so much itâs more than 2x smash on MT 
- iâm only seeing 320% wd Feral but getting 223wd(446mt) smash Archon, Level 100 (GD 1.3.0.8) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator without smash shield mod/while still having the feral mods 
SnB Archon - Full Altar roguelike dungeon
GT link
The shield can support many different Feral Hunger builds. Several of them are very competitive among all AA builds. With some modifiers, Feral Hunger can have higher % WD and more targets than Smite. In other words, Feral Hunger is the upgrade version of Smite that solves the problem of too small attack arc.
9 Likes
not disputing combined build is better/total higher aoe dmg, but does look like itâs less ST dmg than smash still
Or did feral hunger actually hit with shield too when using bulwark and not just main hand(i actually forgot ), meaning double dmg also? - because then it would be 5-600wd indeed
yes, shield and main hand, just like what Smite does.
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I think a basic spell should be evaluated based on its core concept, including physical damage and RR.
What physical devotion do you bypass with SS? Scales? I thought that devo was kinda less relevant nowadays.
It was never considered busted because a) proc percentage diluted most of the damage afterwards and b) shields have their own issues and limited options for AA builds (and on top of that actual tankiness impact vs a DW with insane leach etc., but this is another discussion).
The above doesnât mean that we should keep the bugged version because it was âokishâ then.
iâve no idea what conclusions youâre trying to draw there?
We take RR always right? - so if youâre not having a DAR enabled skill to use smash RR, we take it somewhere else, if we donât have a modifier(spellscourge)/proc/skill like War Cry; we then take scale/always took scales because getting flat RR was vital for phys. - iâve no idea when this supposed meta change happened that we ignored scales if we had no decent option for flat RR?
âit was never considered busted even with 100% wps post foaââŚ
Because the dmg simply wasnât that high, let alone compared to regular wps/âbecause dw wps already double hitâ⌠- youâre just effectively having a dual hit wps as shield, same as smiteâŚ
Likewise what does perceived tankiness have to do with it when the skills use is dmg and compensation for that is now? - nevermind that shields doesnât actually necessarily give you more tankiness than dw or even 2h builds âunless your specific shield comes with a crap load of def stats/phys resâ, similar like a 2h set can come withâŚ
So in what world, does that magically change anything of the previous?
Itâs a dmg comparisons because all skills/attack are about such comparisons, the âdefencesâ have not changed in the last 7 years, the âutilityâ have not changed then or now; what has changed is its dmg, out of the blue; for what reason/necessity? - and thatâs the part that has an impact, and why it matters 
genuinely confounded by that response Neph
No one thinks we should keep the bug. People are arguing that the unbugged skills need more of a compensating buff, because they have been balanced around their bugged damage and are now too weak.
3 Likes
actually the argument is kinda similar, itâs just simpler to maintain the âbugâ to maintain the old dmg, than it is to attempt to buff every individual item/modifier up to the same level because of combination variance i think - likewise easier to then deal with unique outliers like Branded smash, when all others arenât even that.
âif it aint broke donât fix itâ kinda deal
*for Smash specifically(and perhaps upheaval), Avalanche fix probably necessary because dw 4hit existing.
Doesnât matter the interaction, we just want the skills to stay good. I agree with gnomish that itâs easier to maintain the âbugâ and nerf avalanche, but itâs also just for the short term. âFixing the bugâ I think is better long term because there will be less unforeseen math errors due to overdone weapon damage mods.
But at least before this gets into the live patch buff both smash and upheaval into acceptable states, and maaaybe avalanche. I havenât done my own testing yet so Iâll hold off on the avalance part
5 Likes
Iâm assuming that itâs actually one bug in the code that has caused the unintended behaviour in all three skills, and so fixing it for one fixes it for all. Then the question of compensation arises.
It seems to me this is all quite simple. Restoring the exact status quo ante would be ânutsâ, as Z says, but the compensation provided so far is not enough. There is a mid point.
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Yes, exactly.
Itâs just good practice to fix the bug. SS and Upheaval didnât need the accompanying nerf-hammer. Maybe Avalanche did or maybe it is now overnerfed.
I agree with this, but Iâm not so sure about âno oneâ wanting the bug.
Gnomish i have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say
I can share briefly until Z wakes up.
I have no idea where the damage and survivability are coming from, assuming GT links are ok. Is there something I am missing or is it feral hunger? The SR50 build has 8% lifesteal, 400 hp regen and runs x2 TDM potions. Is obelisk and perma ascension able to sustain SR50?
Dude feral has like a billion percent lifesteal
btw, iâm getting some weird ârandomâ upheaval interactions, wonder if anyone can check edit nvm, reversed crit dmg
youâre saying we donât take scales; iâm asking when did we ever not take scales on Phys if didnât have a modifier like Spellscourge or other flat RR skill like War cry? âwe always take flat RR on phys so Scales was always what we took on non Shield DAR Oppressors/Archons/Templars etcâ
Likewise youâre trying to argue? that âdefencesâ somehow has any remote factor in Smash, when not only would that be unchanged; but also never did before. - shield is not a default and inherent tankiness builder. Meanwhile as Lee/Banana points out leech always was a key part, and with drastic reduced dmg comes drastic reduced leech thus reduced survival - your imaginary defence statement does not compensate here, because itâs not a factor/remains unchanged on all smash builds. (and was not tied in the last 7 years either)
So there is no yuge âutilityâ impact there just from having Smash, just a regular one
He never use TDM potion except 1v1 some weak bosses. Feral Hunger has 67% life leech. Expulsimum, and 37k health.
Thnx for the response. Feral was 70%, but I guess this was sufficient.
What about damage in all 3 builds? Do you reckon there is a weird interaction with Feral and Fleshwark bulwark, or just maths (and possibly added high shield damage?)