Just finished the game for the first time with level 82

…I finished both the expansions and explored literally everything possible with full map clears, this is the way I like to play such games, 100% exploration.

While playing the game this way, I ran into some balancing issues. I played on Veteran from start to finish. Early on the game was quite a challenge and I really struggled, especially when exploring a hidden area with higher level bosses. It was fun though, I really enjoyed the challenge.

Eventually as I finished the base game and crafted a Mythical Relic, game started to get easy. When I was starting the expansions I was almost one shotting most bosses and honestly it kind of ruined the game. Still, I wanted to finish everything before going into Elite.

Now I switched to Elite and all the enemies are level 60+… Is there any way for me to perhaps skip to Ultimate or whatever (then again I am guessing Ultimate might be too hard for me at this point). Scaling in this game is just weird, I understand why they have level cap for some enemies but honestly, on Elite all enemies should always scale to player level.

I don’t necessarily disagree with the comment on Elite enemy scaling but as for the “Scaling in this game is just weird”, sure, but it primarily comes down to Grim Dawn’s dual mastery system AND the fact that you can ‘beast-mode’ pump a skill or skills with points lickety split.

As the game moves on more options are open for you, as a player - you have more skill points, devotion points, more access to craftable gear at the blacksmith, faction reps etc. Then there are the extremely wide range of ways you can choose to build your characters and the fact that some builds are stronger than others, some weaker, combined with how this humongous array of possibilities also fluctuates DURING the leveling process itself, well, I would say they’ve done a pretty damn good job trying to keep some semblance of balance during these leveling phases.


Sure, there are ways. Grim Dawn is a very moddable game.

You have have GD Stash or GD Defiler (and one or two other lesser known tools), which can allow you to easily bypass…


[Tool] GD Stash

[Tool] GD Defiler

@Devizz Imo it’s better to GDStash (create with a program) Ultimate Merit, it’s cleaner. It’s an item you buy for your 2nd, 3rd, 4th… characters with a character than has access to Ultimate Forgotten Gods to unlock Elite and Ultimate difficulties. It also gives you Attributes Points / Skill Points / Item Bags that you may have missed while doing these difficulties. As it is your first character you cannot do it so you’d need to make this item with a program.

I recommend it, I think you’ll have more fun this way, due to the way you play. Imagine @powbam was a mysterious 0th character that bought you this Merit. On next characters you can start on Ultimate in a legitimate way.

Sure you can craft an Ult Merit as well. I’ll let you be the one to detail how to do that then :wink: if the person decides to go this route. Most beginners have problems understanding how GD Stash works, especially when it comes to its crafting aspects.

@Devizz

I really dislike using mods, especially ones that give you things that are otherwise obtainable in-game such as items etc.

Sure, but unfortunately this is not obtainable for your 1st character, only next ones can skip difficulties.
So you need to grind or at least speed through Elite.

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I’d say that at least in terms of game systems balance, Diablo 3 is a much better game than Grim Dawn.

D3 is also made to be more arcadey, more casual, simplified - it’s game systems/mechanics properly reflect this. You are considerably more limited in how to creatively build your characters. You are, in effect, largely neutered and having your hand held at every point along the way.

GD is more old school and actually, ironically, more true to the Diablo name than Diablo 3 itself. And this is why many of us prefer GD over D3.

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Nah its not weird, it is this that is weird:

I sometimes have similar “issues” in Diablo 2, where I farm Baal etc for gear in normal so that I get so overleveled that entire act 1-2 in nightmare is just a walk in the park. But I just say to myself that I have myself to blaim for this. You are kinda not supposed to do 800 Baal runs in normal before you move on :slight_smile:

Exactly, Diablo 3 campaign is just a joke. You can beat it and have no clue of what you are actually doing. Diablo 3 is just about the greater rifts. In Grim Dawn the campaign matter because you have to do it in the highest difficulty ultimate in order to do end game stuff.

Why? Because mobs always scale with you?

I think your experience with Grim Dawn now is due to the fact that

  1. You are an experienced ARGP player, thus normal/veteran and elite wont pose a challenge to you - it is ultimate difficulty that should be your goal and concern. You have no idea how many people even struggling to “beat” normal difficulty in GD.
  2. You play the game 100% map clear, not many people do that. The highest level I have been in veteran is level 70ish before moving on to elite.

But first char in Grim Dawn can be a “slog”, especially if you are already experienced with ARPGs - just see normal/veteran & elite as “tutorials” and preparations for things to come.

I mean I beat Diablo 3 the first time I played it, with 0 deaths. Easiest ARPG I have ever played, when it comes to actually using your own brain - game did everything for me. Which is exactly what this quote refers to:

And is a contributing reason why I do not play Diablo 3 at all. The other reasons I think you know yourself: the endless greater rift grind with a limited available builds that the developers have made for you - no room for creativity in build making and the mechanics is so easy to figure out that even a 8y old can do it.

Sure you can up the “torment” if you think campaign is too easy. But the 69 different difficulty scalings was/is kinda added ad hoc, is just a last minute “oof we need to make game harder, lets add torment difficulties great idea”… it is just a version of the “playersX” command in Diablo 2 single player. Ad hoc.

Like who even play Diablo 3 for the campaign? Like, ever?

Considering your review on Grim Dawn that you posted, I bet you won’t like Path of Exile either… an even more complex game than Grim Dawn. But that is another story…

If you think D3 is much better game than GD, just play D3 then?

Its ok to not like Grim Dawn, just as it is ok not to like Dream Theater or other kind of complex music :slight_smile: People have different tastes. I just get bored listen to music that is in 4/4 and songs are 3,5 min long. There are people who thinks Nirvana is superior music than Symphony X so…

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I suspected this might come up. Indeed, one could argue that Grim Dawn’s is much more complex when it comes to all the game systems with varying countless parameters. I am not sure if I agree.

As for D3 being more acadey as you put it and simplified; that is true. But don’t confuse the guise of simplicity for actual simplicity. I think ALL games should strive to be as simple as possible when presenting information to the player while having as much player agency as possible. MEANINGFUL choice is what it is all about. I could write much more about what I think of Grim Dawn’s class system and so forth but I don’t want to get into it here. So, I’ll abstain from stating which game does a better job at creating a more meaingful experience.

All in all, when it actually matters, I think Diablo 3 offers as much agency as Grim Dawn when it comes to MEANINGFUL choice. I realize many people will disagree and it would require a huge chunk of text and breakdown of specific systems to promote my argument. I am just saying, when it comes to systemic balance, I think D3 Designers did a better job.

I am not trying to promote Diablo as a superior game, I think Grim Dawn excells in many things. For one Level Design/Art STOMPS on D3, I was amazed with manually crafted geometry in contrast to D3’s procedually generated plain locals.

The thing is D3 is laughed at by a ton of experienced ARPG players and Grim Dawn is kinda praised :thinking:
I think it’s dependent on how much time you put into the game. If you’d like to commit little time, D3 might be a better game.
Btw I love D3 for smooth gameplay and combat feeling / feedback.

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WRONG there are NO meaningful choices at all in Diablo 3 :slight_smile: There is not even a choice to be made in Diablo 3, except what class to play. You can change skills whenever you want, skills and runes unlock as you level up. Stat points are spent as you level up as well. Game always tell you what boot or bracer to use.

There is no balance in Diablo 3 either. Just a hand holding walk in the park until you get your class set with +80K% damage bonus to skill X.

I have played Diablo 3 around 2000 hours, did the campaign twice. Both time without having to think a single thought. The reason why I spent that amount of time was not because it offered any kind of choices whatsoever, or that it offers any kind of ROLE PLAYING (the R and P in ARPG) was simply because I loved the action and combat - probably what D3 does best, and still does after all these years. Diablo 3 is a psedudo-ARPG, an action game which is false advertised as an ARPG.

i.e this:

Comparing Grim Dawn with Diablo 3 is not even possible, because they are not games in the same genre.

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As someone who is insane enough to do everything in every difficult with every character, i don’t know how people can get to level 80 in Normal. At best i reach level 73 or 74 and again, i do literally everything available, and that means even doing rogue dungeon quests that are really a waste to do on normal and the keys you get from the npcs to do those quests should be saved for ultimate.

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He did play on veteran, +10% exp bonus

And that’s the difficulty i play as well. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I have not done 100% clear veteran since they changed it a few years ago. Maybe I should try.

Nothing wrong with simplicity and I get what you’re saying but in the case of D3 it’s extremely hard to say there is meaningful choice when the entire endgame revolves around which sets they have decided are going to be the “in fashion” at this or that given moment in time. And don’t even get me started on the skill system :wink:

Agreed. Crate have done an amazing job here and it shows.

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And to clarify, i kill everything in every map, and in some builds i go as far to farm a specific MI to get at least decent affixes.

I guess people somehow getting to level 80 and above on Normal/Veteran is gonna be something that is always going to fascinate me because it’s something that even i can’t do and i’m OCD when it comes to clearing maps.

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I kinda do this aswell, so I do not have to farm it in Elite. Elite I wanna spend as little time as possible.