Kraken Devotion Affinity Requirements

[craftman_21]

I wanted to start a discussion over the Affinity requirements of Kraken and extending that into another idea of Alternate Affinity requirements.

I’ve been working on a Ranged 2 Handed Rifle Cadence build. In the process of fine tuning the build, I’ve come to notice the biggest difficulty in making the devotions work is Kraken being an Edltrich + Primordial requirement yet giving Chaos + Primordial in Affinity. Which for some builds (ie. Primal Strike) works heavily in favor of their devotion path, while for others they have to sacrifice a good portion of devotion points just to access this Constelltion, which from my experience, is essential to playing a 2 handed Ranged build.

My suggestion is, another Constellation for 2 handed Ranged with Ascendant + Eldritch / Order + Ascendant , to round out available options for other playstyles and build paths.

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Alternate Idea

Also I was thinking about suggesting the possibility of have Alternate Affinity requirements for some constellations to add options for other builds. I’ll use Kraken as an example:

Instead of having 5 Eldritch + 5 Primordial, it would have as an alternate affinity requirement of 5 Eldritch + 5 Ascendant. As long as one set of affinity requirements are met it would be available to the player.

I feel that for some devotions that are essential for differing buildpaths it would open up options for choosing devotions. The downside would be adding more complexity to an already complex system, thus compounding on the difficulty to balance the system. However, if done sparingly, and for certain ‘key’ devotions, it could improve the system without adding too much needless complexity.

Thanks for reading my wall of text.

[Aicus]

Most of the low level constellation offering highest affinity points are very generic and will benefit almost if not all build. Just get Spider/Raven for Eldritch, Sailor’s Guide for Primordial, Empty Throne for Ascendent, Lion for Order, Jackal for Chaos, those constellation don’t hurt any build.

[craftman_21]

Most of the low level constellation offering highest affinity points are very generic and will benefit almost if not all build. Just get Spider/Raven for Eldritch, Sailor’s Guide for Primordial, Empty Throne for Ascendent, Lion for Order, Jackal for Chaos, those constellation don’t hurt any build.

i’m mainly speaking about Kraken itself, being the only two handed ranged devotion yet being restrictive in it’s access so that only certain builds can utilize it effectively.

[Garfunkel]

And I 'd like to point out the super high cost of Spear of the Heavens. You have to sacrifice too much poinst to get it (mostly sacrificing survivability) and the proc of its celestial power is so-so. Only works when you are hit (which is not good for ranged lightning based characters).

[craftman_21]

And I 'd like to point out the super high cost of Spear of the Heavens. You have to sacrifice too much poinst to get it (mostly sacrificing survivability) and the proc of its celestial power is so-so. Only works when you are hit (which is not good for ranged lightning based characters).

+1 , I feel that the really high requirements on certain Tier 4 Constellations really restrict build diversity, accompanied with the varied and inconsistent quantities of affinity on various devotions. (ie Some devotions giving only 1-2 Affinity yet requiring 6-7 devotion points, whilst others giving 5-6 affinity, yet requiring 3-5. And the impact of said devotions can widely vary amongst them)

[eisprinzessin]

The upside of this suggestion is, that you could easily reuse this feature for other constallations, too. But look at shields. Related constellations all require Order, Primordial and / or Ascendant. Given that there are multiple constallations Crate could have distributed them more evenly across all five affinities. Yet they did not.

My take on this is, Crate wants to avoid that e.g. “all” 2-handed builds use Kraken because it is the best option. Build diversity is achieved through constraints. On the one hand all Kraken-builds will have some common features, but there can be other 2-handed builds without Kraken, which look rather differently but are not necessarily inferior.

Feedback from another discussion, but quite applicable here, too:

If there are no limitations and the game is perfectly balanced so that any combination of choices is equally good, then choice is pointless and only a matter of preference (of course, it would be virtually impossible to achieve such perfect balance). On the other hand, if certain combinations are more powerful than others and any combination is allowed without limitation, then it is an easy process of pairing up the best things, which excludes other possibilities because they are less viable / advantageous. Having some limitations, whether they be hard ones, like you can’t use a 2h weapon and a shield together or softer, cost-based ones like you can wear any armor but it cost’s physique, allows for more possible combinations and more theorizing about the best pairings or the cost/benefit curve of investment in different stats.

Instead Crate could add differently flavored constallations (without raising the 50 points limit) in an expansion for those, which have an item requirement.

[Nightmare]

And I 'd like to point out the super high cost of Spear of the Heavens. You have to sacrifice too much poinst to get it (mostly sacrificing survivability) and the proc of its celestial power is so-so. Only works when you are hit (which is not good for ranged lightning based characters).

You don’t sacrifice any survivability to get SotH 60/70% of the constellations to reach it offer defenses

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[Avyctes]

My take on this is, Crate wants to avoid that e.g. “all” 2-handed builds use Kraken because it is the best option. Build diversity is achieved through constraints. On the one hand all Kraken-builds will have some common features, but there can be other 2-handed builds without Kraken, which look rather differently but are not necessarily inferior.

This sounds suspicious to me. Kraken is in my opinion and the opinion of every two handed guide writer I can remember the best constellation ever. It’s so good that you can’t afford to skip it. Builds without it will be weaker, there can be no doubt about that.

[Garfunkel]

You don’t sacrifice any survivability to get SotH 60/70% of the constellations to reach it offer defenses

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Defenses in Constellation are health regeneration and %HP. What I meant is you lose on those very valuable celestial powers for a mediocre overpriced and shitty devotion proc. Even the authors of Cornucopia agree on that and made the cost of Spear of the Heavens lower and somewhat buffed its boni.

[craftman_21]

Instead Crate could add differently flavored constallations (without raising the 50 points limit) in an expansion for those, which have an item requirement.

This is exactly what i would like to see.

Defenses in Constellation are health regeneration and %HP. What I meant is you lose on those very valuable celestial powers for a mediocre overpriced and shitty devotion proc. Even the authors of Cornucopia agree on that and made the cost of Spear of the Heavens lower and somewhat buffed its boni.

I definitely think for what is offered, Spear of the Heavens, has too high of a cost, similar to a few other Tier 4 constellations(I’m looking at you Tree of Life). I’m all for ‘committing’ to a choice, but the amount necessary is overkill, when the end result isn’t as substantial as other options.

[Aicus]

i’m mainly speaking about Kraken itself, being the only two handed ranged devotion yet being restrictive in it’s access so that only certain builds can utilize it effectively.

And I am telling you that the requirement is not a problem. The affinity points on completion works in favour of builds that use 2 handed range weapon as it makes it easier to grab Hydra.

If anything, Hydra would be more of a problem for builds using 1 handed range or dual wield range due to the triple affinity requirement and the devotion points needed fulfill the requirements for a constellation that is so much weaker than Kraken.