KS Quest repost - Future of PC Gaming

Grim Dawn Development Updates
1

I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on the future of the industry, pcgaming, Kickstarter, and Gambition?
I am thinking we’re at the edge of a new era in gaming, but I’m curious what your take is, especially since you have crowd-funding working for you where a year ago only publisher-funding was possible.

Thank you to TECHNOmancer for suggest I re-post this here.

I think it is definitely a new era in gaming, especially for PC. 5 years ago people were saying PC gaming was dead but clearly that hasn’t come to pass; quite the opposite. The biggest boon has been digital distribution, which allows smaller developers to reach a large market without publishers, which previously wasn’t possible.

Crowd funding is another big boon for small developers, although it is difficult to predict how it will evolve going forward. Another big factor is that the audience has grown and reaching the large casual market has proven quite profitable, which is pulling publishers / larger developers in that direction. To earn back the costs of massive AAA games, they need to hit as big a market as possible. The broader the audience you target though, the less effectively you can please any given segment of the audience.

This creates an opportunity for smaller developers like us to come in and create games that are more focused on a specific audience segment and can better cater to their tastes. I think traditional gamers are also having a bit of a revolution lately in that, I think people are tiring of soulless, watered down AAA titles and there is a resurgence of interest in traditional games with more complex mechanics.

Finally, I think there is bound to be somewhat of a convergence of hardware at some point and it will likely work in favor of a more open platform like PC. Tablets and mobile phones are basically like mini-PCs and they’re becoming more and more powerful each year. I imagine at some point, instead of PCs, consoles, and mobile devices, we’ll just have super powerful mobile devices that we can easily connect to a monitor / TV when we’re at home and hook up whatever controllers we want. That should make it easier for all developers to reach a much larger audiences.

These are definitely interesting times that we live in and it is good to stay nimble as a developer.

2

Most of the games I play these days are from indie, or small team developers. Their focus is on making games they want to play, then pushing it out there with some risk and a lot of balls. Unsurprisingly, there are a number of voids in the gaming market which people will throw money at to ensure a game comes along to fill that. And I think that is what makes them profitable to some extent. And helps build trust and a sense of community with a developer.

Grim Dawn to me is filling its own niche area. I don’t have to worry about choosing between generic elf, dwarf or orc when I have an arse kicking dude toting a gun in Victorian era styled world. And yes, having a game where I still get to make meaningful choice and the ability to push myself and test my skills without handholding is much appreciated.

I hope KS, and furthermore an upsurge and success with indie titles is a means of publishers realising their vision of games is not necessarily in synch with the expectation of the PC gaming crowd.

3

I really think things are changing for PC gaming, because we see how most AAA titles are ports of console versions and we feel that our computers, our “mean gaming machines” are not used to their full potential.
As for the gaming community, it is true that games which have complexity and soul are what we look for. An example remember Dragon Age: Origins and it’s “Baldur’s Gate” vibe, a game which you would prefer to play in isometric view rather than the more actionish 3rd person and the community backlash Bioware for the sequel which by distancing itself from the old school style the original had and adopting the Mass Effect formula…
We are seeking substance in our games, we like them to have meaning, not just a 5 hour stomp of button mashing. For me gaming is mainly about fun, but escapism plays a role too and how can you immerse yourself in a game which is linear, lacks creativity and relies on the same old tricks to get you playing it.

Embrace the Grim Dawn of Cairn, brothers!

4

The only limitation I see with my PC is that it is in my officespace. And after working a full day on a PC, I often don’t feel like also spending the evening in a chair at a computer terminal gaming. Consoles have filled that void by letting me sit on the couch with a simple controller and play my game in comfort.

Most of my purchases have come for the consoles because of that. But I still keep my PC for certain games - like Skyrim, and for PC games where there is no direct console port (MMORPGs). It would be interesting to see “mobile” devices take the place of PCs if they become that powerful, as it could mean gaming almost anywhere… but I think that they will always lag behind to some extent, mostly because of the architecture of the computer. For example, my computer is liquid cooled to allow me to push it hard… running the same kind of CPU/Graphics combo on my phone would melt it :stuck_out_tongue:

5

I see ideas like Kickstarter and online-only distribution for indie game studios as the cavalry coming over the hill to rescue PC gaming from the big name publishers, who have all sold out to the console hordes. I am an old-school PC gamer from way back, and each new PC title that is nothing but a dumbed-down console port, fills me more and more with anger and despair.
I like my games to be detailed, intricate, and require intelligent thought to play rather than twitch skills. Games like Legend of Grimrock and Grim Dawn I hope are marking a return to the complex, satisfying PC games of old… :slight_smile:

6

Amen!

I would like to see a full-fledged divergence of PC and console/“social” gaming industries and it appears to be possible or even probable.

I remember EA games being the best (on my Commodore 64) and would buy them because they were always top-notch. Now, in my mind, the large game publishers and journalists are now part of The Media, producing garbage, which is somehow…popular!? (The herd is always wrong.)

Anyway, preaching to the choir here… :wink:

7

I couldn’t agree more, a lot of the big titles coming out feel like they are being released like big box office movies. Huge amounts of hype, splash of celeb endorsement, big marketing budgets but have little or no substance to them.

It’s almost as if the game is an after thought in the same way hollywood works by find a working movie formula that’s sold well and just repeating the hell out of it until everyone is sick of it.

‘Oh god please not another police academy!’ :eek:

8

The thing is when you make those big triple A titles it costs a lot of money. Companies of a size to make those game are mostly run by people who want a return on their money. To do this they need or think they need to hit a wide market and this can include dumbing down games or things of that nature.

Kickstarter makes it easier for us to get the games we want to play and not just the games a lot of people want to play. But if those games become hugely successful there’s the risk they’ll go the way of the big games. I like the idea behind Grim Dawn, to own their own game and keep developing it but some games will be successful and sell out.

I don’t think developers want to make bad games, I can’t see those who who think up those games wanting anything other than to make a good games. The bad decisions come from above. Those people making Diablo 3, do you think they really wanted it to be online only? I can’t imagine that.

9

I think my feelings are cautiously optimistic. On one hand we have the indie revolution, kickstarter, and an increase in media attention towards PCs. On the other we have EA removing its games from steam, Online only DRM, Insulting DLC (whether it be the quality of the content the price or if it is on disk in the first place.), companies removing mod tools from their games, and a myriad of other negatives I can’t seem to come up with at the moment.

I think in order for PC to have a bright future we need to get the gaming masses to stomp their feet in the ground and to tell the publishers what’s up. We can’t keep on buying games like D3, because doing so sends the message that online only DRM is okay as long as the game is good. We, the consumers, hold the future in our hands, but it is our choice to choose how we want the future to be.

10

I think if we can just get all of the hardcore gamers onboard with crowd funding, that will be enough to keep the games coming that we all want to play. Then it won’t matter how much dumbed-down casual garbage the Big Publishers churn out.
We can basically thumb our noses at them, and get back to playing the kind of games that we want…

11

No offense but Dragon Age: Origins didn’t feel like Baldur’s Gate at all. It was a terrible game.
That was just the marketing campaign they used.

12

I find myself in agreement with PC gaming’s rise. Digital distribution is amazing, look at Steam. On sale, some games have made as much as 7000% profit (source http://twotribes.com/message/rush-sales-statistics ) due to the great deals and bargains. You can buy old classics, new indie projects, and new AAA titles on steam if you wish, and whenever a big sale event hits, everyone empties their wallets.

The indie bundles were also great things, showing that it doesn’t have to be a AAA title to be a game people love and enjoy.

The rise of Kickstarter is another great thing. Essentially, gamers put their good faith into developers to create something that the gamer is actually excited about. I’ve yet to see a Kickstarter project that I was interested in where the people making the product were helpful, kind, and offering great content. Crate Entertainment is clearly a great example of this.

Another thing to take note of is, while consoles are still recouping losses over the pricing of their consoles (remember PS3 and 360 sold for much less than production cost), the PC has been steadily advancing in technology. My current PC is 5 years old and can still play all the latest games, on mostly highest settings. A lot of games recently have been held back in terms of technical capabilities due to the consoles not being able to handle the same degree of both graphics and AI.

The PC has a bright future, all it needs is more pushes in the right direction. Many of the major companies are starting to reap what they sow, evident in their profit steadily declining.

13

I agree too that the pc gaming scene is not dead, but getting bigger, but what do you people think about the “menace” of tablets and smartphones? the other day I was reading this news article saying that microsoft is losing money because apple is eating the pc market away and also the console one (less xbox sold), because more and more people prefer to buy an Ipad instead of a pc or a console.

And I think that because the money is more and more in the ipads, more and more game developers that could make outstanding pc games, are developing games that are iphone or ipad friendly :

-Weak graphics and engines, because of the lack of graphical power in the smartphones/Ipads. They can benefit of the power of pcs if the game is cross platform, but if the game doesnt have respectable graphics to begin with, you dont get much more quality playing the pc version.

-Casual games with simplistic mechanics so they can be played comfortably with the restriction of not having mouse-keyboard or gamepad, and that are appealing to people who mostly play angry birds etc.

-Interesting, deep Ideas for games that are not developed because of the relatively small size an Ipad game must have. Developers that want to make money out of ipad games wont be able to make, for example, a skyrim-like game because right now is imposible.

Maybe Im just talking out my ass, or maybe its because I hate apple and the damn ipads and iphones. what do you think?

14

Hold on… So your saying, instead of getting to choose a race, even if it is those three generic ones you stated, that you’d rather have no choice and be forced to play a human. That sounds kind of silly to me.

If a game gave me the choice of being something other than an extremely generic human, I wouldn’t even have to think which one I would choose. =)

On topic:

PC gaming is going to see another dip when the next gen consoles come out. However, give it a year or so afterwards, and again PC hardware and software will become top of the line again causing another surge in PC gaming. I see this trend happening a lot over the next few years. =)

15

They can keep all their angry birds and crap like that, most pad / phone games I have seen I would not want to play for even 1 minute.

To me they fit right in with the casual game crowd, also stuff I find completely pointless and unfun.

In a way this is similar (albeit more pronounced) than the challenge we have with console games for a console generation that was outclassed over 3 years ago and still clings on…

I am not overly concerned, if only because the PC has been around this long and everyone was always predicting its demise. Social and tables / phone games certainly will find an audience, but these are not anywhere near full games, graphics and gameplay wise. They are more like glorified Minesweeper, you play it for 5 to 30 minutes when you have nothing better to do (i.e. on a bus or train), but it does not replace ‘real’ games, just like youtube does not replace HBO.

16

Too much to say too little time, i might blabber more on this since its soo late at night and only saw this topic so thought i throw in a couple of words before heading to bed.

  • Small casual - iphone / ipad = 5 / 30 mins playtime and if you expect more then your stupid lol.

  • people will always buy new crap and find out the crappy difference in a more than average way i just dont know why people with silly iphones dont see that all they are doing these days is looking down and running into brick walls < cant wait for this to start to happen…

  • Kickstarter is a good way for indi devs to take an idear present it to the plubic but i dont think having to have to put down X amount for something to kick off is something that should still be allowed, i mean if anyone even 10 people vote on a game if the dev thinks that game is worth 10 people to put the game out there then so be it let it be there choice not kickstarter.

  • Kick starter needs to be kicked in the butt hole for being morons that make people or devs put down a amount for a game to take off or even for money to pass hands they needed a rethink on this.

  • How pc gameing is well i say if stupid publishers ever get there a - hole into gear then maybe we could enjoy good games like on console for pc as well, i mean look at the ability now to run old games on your pc because of dosbox - emulators and roms that well use to be our tape / disks to run the game it self.

  • Gaming in general atm is at an interesting time period because of the new idears that are floating around but as i said about kickstarter theres only a few or maybe less than 5 places where small devs can get there idears out to a huge plubic or only those that know about the web site.

  • The web is always changing and people looking for games need to have a more common ground when looking for information on gaming in general, You tube is a great place to find out if a game is worthy of playing or not since it can either make you like a game or hate it.

i have been at this for a bit might take half a post but i dont care… im going to bed. night all. might blab more lets see :).

17

The broader the market/audience you shoot for the more diluted the actual play quality of any game happens to be, too. Everyone gets scared to do something that although possibly cool, has never been done before. Just look at Medal Of Honor/Call Of Duty/etc. etc. . Same ride all the time.

18

WoW has been so diluted in attempts to market it to the masses that it barely resembles its initial release. A few, including myself, have left because the game has become “flavourless” to us. We are a part of that subset that Medierra said would be hard to please the more things were “dumbed” down in order to appeal to a wider audience.

That said… i don’t think Blizz would agree that their marketing to a wider audience has been an issue, especially when they still have 9 million or so people paying $10-$15 a month to play the game.

19

Not the steam sale argument again…

You know that steam gets most if not all the profits from these older games, right? You know a lot of these $2-$3 games they have on sale? A lot of these companies have just sold the marketing rights to steam. Most of the time these are old games, that everyone who wanted to play them already has. I feel like its nothing more than a money sink for the ADD generation who buys on impulse.

Cousin of mine bought a ton of those cheap games, and even he admitted, that he probably isn’t gonna play most of them, but felt like showing his collection off anyway, like it was some sort of bragging rights? I told him to come over to my place, and I’ll show him a legit PC game collection, around 200 PC games, with boxes and manuals upstairs.

As long as I got a physical copy, nobody can enforce their terms of service on my ability to play the said game.

I’m weary of digital distribution, I see it as a double edged sword, one way to look at it is people will possibly get better deals due to not having to package their products to sell (which means I’m not paying $60 for a digital copy), but this also allows them to establish more control over the consumer by making you agree to their terms of service, and those terms of service actually have teeth behind them, and its the fact they are pushing this on the gaming base is what scares me. No I don’t trust a large corporation, especially not a company like Value, or EA.

I still support game companies, but honestly I always look for the same patches the pirates use to play their games off steam, meaning I buy physical copies, and just patch steam out. Its basically me saying, yes I want to play this game, and I paid you money for it, but no I do not agree to any terms other than you selling me a physical copy of a game and me playing it when/how I want. Its how I do PC gaming, and I’ve been doing it for years, and I’m going to continue doing it. I don’t even have a steam account, or even have it installed on this PC, don’t need it.

Some people are control freaks, and in a way, I’m sorta an anti-control freak, meaning if I feel like someone is unnecessarily pushing for some kind of control, in this case companies controlling their products, then I feel obligated to be against it. Its like a second nature for me.

20

Nobody mentioned steam even once in here. But thanks for your generic rant.