Let's make heroes HEROES

Note: After some consideration, I came to the conclusion that this suggestion should be limited to main campaign for the most part. Let’s leave crucible/SR as they are, OR compensate for the stronger heroes being a larger speed bump/extra threat.

We all know it. Beyond a certain point, which is level 5 for most of my meme leveling setups, 20 for those builds that insist on using autoattack replacers, heroes become mere minor speed bumps.

Aside from Arcane heroes, they are all just extra loot, and very crappy extra loot at that, taking into consideration how weak epics were in the past 3 years of the game, and how their droprate of monster infrequents, or even ugdenblooms, are nothing to write home about.

Only exception from this are the healers and timewarped heroes, who can negate damage dealt to a tougher target, or slow, or petrify.

Since a lot of people tend to like Arcane heroes (subdued screaming in the background), or timewarped / healers (even more screaming), I propose that ALL heroes be buffed to the level of arcanes, timewarpeds, and healers. To accomplish this:

Modify their Total Speed by -20%
Modify their Total Damage by 25%
Modify their base health by +100% (2x) at lower levels, scaling up to +200% (3x) by ultimate levels.
Halve %life heal from healers.
Triple the hero orb drop rates (for rares, rare materials, and uniques)
Double or more the MI drop rates.

This will make heroes a better challenge, as their attacks will have better telegraphing, and pose a greater threat. Similarly, the extra time they can spend alive will make them better suited to stop you from steamrolling over them in 2-3 seconds. All this is rewarded by appropriate drop rates, which will help close the gap between campaign farming and other farming modes.

Additionally, the existing hero types could be revisited to be more distinct in both behavior and providing a challenge.

  • Voidtouched: Give them the 3-Wave spread (projectile, piercing, returning) ability from Ekket’Zul, and doom bolt.
    • they are the hero equivalent of being the bane of ranged/kiting playstyles, but with sufficient cooldowns to be a threat, rather than a pure invalidation of the playstyle (unlike wendigos, colossi, flesh hulks, etc.)
  • Corrupted: Devastation ability doing a non-stacking DA shred.
    • Corrupted heroes are fine as they are, spawning pools under players like Noxxan Shade, and they should continue this tradition at a higher level, shredding (corrupting) the targets’ DA.
  • Defender: inquisitor seals of damage shred (15% reduced damage, non-stacking, 1s duration) and damage absorb buff to allies. (%)
    • Defenders are a cool concept, and inquisitor seals are also a fan favorite. Give seals to heroes.
  • Electrified: Arcing Zantarim-like exploding multi-projectile (2-4) (think Stun Jacks without stun, a’la korvaak’s servants) skill. Also Lightning Doom Bolt(like the granted skill on items)
    • Electrified heroes could grant ranged characters a bit of extra challenge.
  • Burning: Arcing multi-projectile fireball spell (think Zantarim but tame), Fire and Burn damage AND Fire+burn Retaliation AoE buff to allies (Think Blood of Dreeg’s template), chance to spawn pools under target (chance to cast on attack)
    • Burning heroes have a vindictive flame-like aura, but that isn’t enough. They should be MORE burning.
  • Frozen: Cold One-like fost explosion on getting hit, without the freezing part, and a reverse-projectile-nova a’la terrnox (but without the freeze part)
    • clearly not frozen enough, but (as people in this thread pointed it out) we have a CC abundance at this point, so a focus on their retal playstyle is a better choice.

-1 from me.

Sorry, but more difficulty is the last thing I want from GD.

3 Likes

+1 to Maya and -1 to the suggestion. I want more difficulty from Ultimate campaign, but in SR with its scaling and in Crucible I’d better choose to fight 2 nemesis at once rather than a group of heroes with multiple debuffs.

2 Likes

I forgot: Leave the arcane heroes (and their damage/health/speed) alone, as they are.

What “multiple debuffs”?

  • Obsidian Trap and Freezing projectile nova are not debuffs, but CCs, which can be resisted. Whether we want CCs or want to get rid of some can be debated however. Alternatively, a Terrnox style non-freezing projectile nova, and an Ekket’zul like chaos multi-projectile nova could be added. That won’t be a CC at all.
  • Defender’s Inq Seal is the only proposed stacking debuff. The DA shred won’t stack with other hero/boss DA shred abilities.

I wouldn’t mind this if Z cuts back on the CC, if not it’ll be the end of glass cannons.

EDIT: possible +1 if things change, but a firm -1 given the current state of the game

@Boromonokli: ^watch that video. Ya got killed by 3 ugdenbog golems through ghoul, golemborn proc, ascension, and blastshield.

I still don’t understand how that happened

I get the game shouldn’t be balanced around crucible, but this is also a sign of something very extreme imo.

Nothing should be able to kill you under that combination of circuit breakers

I think you know well that a split second of being CC-d may be enough to be debuffed to hell and killed, especially if you’re frozen or petrified and so unable to do anything like escape from Arcane orb from Arcane heroes.

Good point, I’ll drop the CC part.

edit: Could you help me identify the mutators? It looks like each golem did an overhead slam attack, and it chopped up health by a quarter each in quick succession. While being debuffed to hell anyways.

Lots of heroes have interesting skillsets but we don’t see any of those because they usually die so fast. Their dmg output is ok but health and defenses are a bit low across the board. The only time you get to have your butt kicked by heroes is some strong hero gangs in deep shards with bad mutators. Maaaybe in 168 if you let gargoyles live long enough.

I think the health and defenses can be increased but it must come with their debuffs and CC toned down. It’ll create more healthy gameplay. Not gonna lie, having a small portion of bosses and nems as the only challenge in the game is slowly but surely getting old for me.

Naked crucible awaits, friend

Eh… tried it with some of the builds i have, ones that can afford it. It’s all the same. Of course, your chance to die to hero wave increase from 0% to 5-10% depending on the build. But for big waves the increase is much bigger.

Most of the suggestion is to make heroes closer to bosses, but with less total speed, and more to outplay. and after the feedback you gave me, aimed primarily at the main campaign to make it more rewarding.

Really? I find 153 hard, avrismarrowill hurts, kymon can oneshot many builds, etc etc.

But tbf, it was when I realized I wasn’t dying in Cr for I then start going for DPS builds. That’s when it gets tough

I mean purely hero waves, father is a boss after all, and one of the thick ones. But even then, in bosses+heroes waves heroes usually just evaporate.

Big no to every point what author offers in first post

I think the danger or hero mobs come from buffs/debuffs. Also it kinda makes sense to me for them to be weak as these are enemies encountered the moment you leave devils crossing

Agreed around here that MC is a joke and even aspirant provides better rewards than optimized dungeon farming. Suggestion is made to make MC less joke and more rewarding.

Look, it won’t hurt your crucible times, OK? And probably won’t hurt your SR times either, as SR has it’s own copy of creatures. (I think at least)

@Boromonokli: do you mean debuffs? Or mutators?

well, probably both. I’m still more of an MC/Budget man, can’t identify mutators from a glance. Ya said in thread that there was Brutal and Afflicted.

Right. I’ll edit this post and tag you in it when I get home.

@Boromonokli

Mutators:

Debuffs:

Still doesn’t make sense to me.

Those ugdenbog golems shouldn’t break through Resilience + BS + Ghoul + ascension + golemborn in (3 + 1) Cr.

Heroes might be easy to kill, but they are terrifyingly synergistic with bosses

@Boromonokli:

Just wanted to show you how dangerous CC + stacable debuffs are (in crucible, at least).

Watch 0:30 to 0:45

Agreed by whom? The elite builders? Sorry, but overall they’re in the minority. Most players don’t get beyond Normal if they even finish that. They’ll probably have neither the skill or gear available to tackle many of these as they stand without making them harder.

1 Like