Leveling yourself into a dead end?

Grim Dawn Gameplay Discussion
1

So I just defeated the Mouth of Chthon on Elite difficulty, but man, was it hard and I can’t help but think it was because of how some enemies’ levels are seemingly tied to the player’s level.

Thanks to various Skeleton Key area runs I did back on Veteran and a little time spent in the Crucible before switching over, I started out pretty over-leveled in Elite, a few levels ahead of the regular mobs. That issue only intensified, until I reached the end at level 78, when all of the regular mobs in the areas before Mouthy were only about level 70 to 72. Mouthy, though, didn’t fall behind like the others, instead it and all its spawns were level 81!

The first 3/4 of the fight were quite doable anyway, but once the Mouthy Tyrants started showing up, I just couldn’t keep up with their spawning speed, mostly because of the relatively low damage I was inflicting, I think. I died A LOT before giving up yesterday and decided to give it another shot today and as mentioned above defeated it now, mostly by switching over some of the Devotion-granted skills and doing nothing but hit-and-run tactics with Demolitionist devices that could continue to deal damage while I ran away (mortars, mines, cocktails), slowly whittling the bastard down, retreating, killing the minions that came after me and then doing it all over again.

Anyway, long story, but what I’m trying to say is this: It seems that it’s quite possible to over-level yourself into a dead end, where all the normal mobs and even spawned heroes are alright to deal with, yet a handful of monsters will smack you around like crazy because they behave completely differently with regards to how their monster level works.

I find that to be very interesting, because it’s an odd mash-up of how previous ARPGs have done it: In Diablo 2, for instance, if a major boss was too tough, I could grind some levels to grow stronger and then come back for more, myself now being stronger in relation to that the boss. In Fallout 3, monsters would level alongside you, but that was also true of regular trash mobs, which were then replaced by more powerful monsters with better XP and loot, so you’re kind of staying level with them. Grim Dawn meanwhile has this weird hybrid, where regular monsters level along with you only up to a certain point, but other monsters will tag along and even overpower you to the degree where there’s a 10 level difference between the regulars and the boss that’s right through the NEXT DOOR.

I’ve only recently gotten into Grim Dawn, but I assume this has always been the case in this game, right? I’m a little worried about Ultimate now, because I have to wonder if I already leveled myself into an unwinnable situation, where the mobs I fight are too crappy to drop anything powerful and the bosses are totally overpowered in comparison to me and my equipment. Anybody else have this problem?

2

Everything in Ultimate will scale to your level (give or take one) or higher.

3

What’s your gear like? Have you been finding good upgrades along the way? You can’t really over-level yourself, but you cab be under geared.

Have you applied augments to your gear too?

4

You didn’t level yourself into an unwinnable situation at all. It’s impossible to do that in this game. All mobs are capable of dropping legendary gear once you get to level 50. Mobs won’t ever be “too crappy” to drop anything powerful. Since mobs scale with your level, they’ll always drop relevant gear. The only time this isn’t the case is when you’re overleveled, in which case you’re still capable of farming lvl 70ish gear off of lvl 70 mobs. At level 78, you are already capable of farming the best gear in the game. It’s not uncommon to farm the roguelike dungeons at the end of elite for gear (and rep) before you start ultimate. Mobs in the roguelikes will more than likely be even higher than 81.

If you were 78 and Loghorrean was 81 - you weren’t having trouble because of the level difference. It was either gear, build, devotions… etc. A three level difference is not a big deal at all, in fact it’s not uncommon to fight guys 5 or 6 levels higher than you in ultimate - trash mobs and bosses both. The boss scaled with your level (in this case, scaled to always be higher than your level) because they are supposed to be harder than the regular guys.

So I wouldn’t worry about ultimate, your level caps at 85 so you’re not too far away. It’s impossible to overlevel. And once you cap at 85, it won’t be uncommon for you to fight lvl 90ish mobs depending on where you go.

5

I’ve only recently gotten into Grim Dawn, but I assume this has always been the case in this game, right?

Yes, it has always been like that. Once you level up a few other characters, try different setup, get a feel on what’s important and what’s not, you’ll remember this post of yours with a slight smirk, like, “Heh” :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

What was your build before you switched to Thermites/BWC/Mortar?

6

@ Ceno
That’s good to know, thanks!

@ Gumshoe
Kind of. Every bit of gear I have has augments and components attached to it, but not necessarily the best components, since I’m saving up some to create Mythical relics. My gear is level 70ish, probably because that’s what I keep killing, except for my gun, which is The Adversary (level 50).

@ frozenwings
I haven’t been to all of the Rogue-like dungeons in Elite yet, but the Steps of Torment at least features level 68-71 mobs despite my own level. So I seem to have “outgrown” that Rogue-like dungeon’s level range at least. Maybe the other ones go higher, though.
Regarding Mouthy, yes, I, too, think it’s mostly the gear, but I’d need more regular monsters that are closer to my and Mouthy’s level to get the endgame stuff, no? I’ll check the other Rogue-likes for their monster levels, but maybe - if all monsters scale on Ultimate - I should just switch over now and try to get better gear from the regular monsters.

7

@ Stupid Dragon
I didn’t really switch my character around too much, just my tactics and which Devotion abilities were tied to my skills. My character is a ranged Sorcerer who focuses on Fire Strike, Grenado and Mortar, plus defensive and support skills from the Arcanist side of things, but has one point in most skills. I’m guessing most of my hit-and-run damage came from the Mortar, while the mines and cocktail may have helped somewhat. I also used the Arcanist ice spells to hold some of the Mouthy Tyrants at bay when retreating.

8

The highest gear in the game requires level 75, so you’re already capable of getting that. Ultimate has a higher drop rate than Elite, so it is better to farm that if you can. The question is whether or not you can. Usually you will have to farm elite for gear and rep in order to be able to handle ultimate. You don’t have to be fully decked out or anything, but a few pieces definitely help.

Once you play for a while and level new guys, you can have some gear already waiting so sometimes you can skip right to ultimate. You will have to grind the rep though. Rep is mainly used to buy augments, which will close any resistance gaps for your character.

9

Yeah, the lack of level 75 regular monsters in Elite means I’ll make the switch now, because I need better gear.

Rep isn’t an issue for me, I already have maximum with everybody except for Kymon’s Chosen (because I only just switched over to them in Elite, but reaching Revered shouldn’t take much longer anyway) and The Outcast (because I killed her in Elite, I might change that back again in Ultimate, I suppose).

10

http://grimcalc.com/build/1007-xKuJFl
Something like that? Assuming you’re using a rifle.

11

I just ran steps of torment in elite just to see, and I got several pieces of level 70-75 gear - despite the lower enemy levels. So you should be good to farm that if you have trouble in ultimate.

Edit - You will definitely want to grind outcast rep at some point. Most builds use her augments. But if you didn’t kill her on normal/vet, you can grind rep for her there and buy augments on that one. I personally don’t kill her anymore at all. Also, as an FYI, besides enemy levels getting higher - each difficulty gives you a 25% penalty across all of your resistances. So you will have a natural -50% resistance in ultimate. This means enemies will hit at least 25% harder on ultimate than elite, regardless of levels.