'Missing Builds?'

[desioner]

OK, it’s obvious now that you are:
A: trolling just to get a reaction from me.
OR
B: not actually reading what I’m replying to you.
I have repeated myself multiple times in this thread alone in an effort to tell you that your intent is not clear. Yet you still do not seem to understand this to be the case. The more clear and concise you word your threads the better and more accurate replies you will receive. Perhaps language & communication as a whole is something that you along with many others simply struggle with… There’s not much I can do to help you with that.
Again you ask a question that I have already replied to and have answered, even thought it’s NOT the one you want to hear is still true and 100% valid.

Some maybe even never thought of… but again it’s impossible to know what someone has or has not thought of if there is no documentation on it. Where would we really even start with such a task!?

How can the community possibly create or maintain a list of EVERYTHING that has NOT been posted to the forums!? What you are asking for is entirely unrealistic. IF any… obviously there are thousands of builds that have never been thought of let alone made. Your lack of imagination regarding this simple fact disheartens me~ But alas this is of course not the first nor will it be the last time you or another person online disappoint me.
For starters to you I encourage you to check out the grimtools item database. There you will find a plethora of items for every class, including your favorite occultist and possibly get some of these “absurd” ideas you have for never seen before~ But I highly doubt you will take that task to heart and so here you are…
IF perhaps you were genuinely serious about this you’d be the one to start a list of items that you think have never been used. It might look something similar to what @grey-maybe had posted in this thread about useless legendaries. This however I feel is too overwhelming a task for you so then perhaps you’ll understand my very simple and correct point on the matter.

[DeputyChuck]

I try again: which ‘absurd’ or totally off-grid-builds (just like his pierce AAR ) are still untested? If any?

167 total

How many recipes have we never thought of cooking ?
How many songs are left to compose, before we “run out of music” ?

In itself the answer is open-ended and depends on a lot of factors, almost all of which are subjective…

how different a build has to be from an existing one to count as a different build ?

Do you have standards ?
I mean I can try to make a … Bleed mage-hunter, for example. But will it be interesting in any way beyond its uniqueness ? Does it need to perform to any level to count ? if so, what is your cutoff point ? completing SR 50 ? campaign ? Does any combination of gear / skill counts as a build ?

Maybe you mean: “every damage type with every class combo” ? in which case, can a build have 2 damage types and still qualify ? Can a build have more than one build with the same damage type ?

If I make 2 purifier pierce builds, both using Valdun set, but the skill distribution and some of the gear is different… are these 2 builds or just one when considering your question ?

What about if only the skills are different ?

See what I mean ?

Your question is too vague, and even if it was precise, you’re asking to number something that by its very nature is unknowable…

[Ceno]

How can the community possibly create or maintain a list of EVERYTHING that has NOT been posted to the forums!? What you are asking for is entirely unrealistic.

This.

If this thread is in any way serious, the serious answer is that there is no answer.

Burden of proof (philosophy) | Proving a negative

[Maska322]

“There are known knowns, things we know that we know ; and there are known unknowns, things that we know we don’t know . But there are also unknown unknowns, things we do not know we don’t know .”

[DeputyChuck]

Here’s a concrete example, since you love Occultist

For what it’s worth, I have a cold/lightning Conjurer based on the Trozan set, Wind devil and fully converted Sigil of Consumption.

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/RZRdynr2

I cleared campaign (Died to Kymon twice) and SR 35 so far… doesn’t look like it can handle SR 50… at least in my hands. It can most definitely be improved with some feedback from top builders… but it also has a ceiling… no one will ever clear SR 100 with this build, no matter haw many fantasy greens you throw at it.

I don’t see any such build on the grimsheet, or anywhere I looked on the forum or on reddit…
Can I make the claim that I was the first to come up with the idea ? Absolutely not.
Maybe nobody thought of it… or it just isn’t good enough for top builders to post, or even try.

Would that count ?
Is this the kind of things you are looking for ?

[Archmagister]

well, yes and no.

No: you did it already

yes: it is not too ‘obvious’

When I started this thread I was not aware about thepowerofmediocreties thread and only partly of gnomishs.

Both are near to what I wanted, from different sides.

tqfan had a list of doombolt-builds, where he stated, that some where ‘missing’ (see quote in first post).

In mediocres thread then I saw that all options where tested already (except cold, that is).

Gnomish then posted his ‘crazy’ idea of pierce aar, and I hoped that this example was enough for you.

Your Trozan example is btw not too far away from what I mean. But after tqfans info on conversion and its mech-issues the whole point of this thread became a little less interesting.

Btw, SR performance is irrelevant. In fact I also was looking for rough build ideas, where everyone would say from the beginning: “aaah unpossible” with the arenamodes in head. Because I dont care about those.

PS: the other 2 persons in this thread answering before you with irrelevant statements are on ignore since a long time. They share a certain psychology with a third ignored person, that I dont tolerate in my online life. Just so that they know.

To your questions:

how different a build has to be from an existing one to count as a different build ?

Not different, but way off. Like gnomishs example of pierce aar.

Does it need to perform to any level to count ? if so, what is your cutoff point ? completing SR 50 ?

I have stated that many times, I only care for main campaign. And you wouldnt even know its perfomance, cause it was dismissed before even tested.

Does any combination of gear / skill counts as a build

skill yes, as it can be controlled, gear not really as it is dropping random. If gear comes into play than only as e. g. “well, you need some conversion, or DA or OA…” Nothing too narrowed down.

every damage type with every class combo

Rather skill AND damage type.

in which case, can a build have 2 damage types and still qualify

of course, but not necessarily

are these 2 builds or just one when considering your question

Depends

Final example: Cold doombolt. It’s the only one missing, because reasons. Now, what I expected, was someone telling me: well, cold doombolt is missing because reasons (which indirectly mediocrities thread shows, so HE got me right. And have you seen the incredible amount of NAGGING by certain people in his thread? So disgusting…).

I then would have checked, if there is even SOME way to get close to realizing it, e. g. converting its damage to the max the game allows (with gear in this example) if at all, and see what could be created around it. And Trozan could have been an idea in that regard, not because it helps with doom bolt but the skills periphery of e. g. a warlock. And while doing so totally ignore anyone whining about its performance.

This is an example, mind you.

Getting a feeling now?

[Ceno]

They share a certain psychology with a third ignored person

Is this psychology somewhere along the lines of “being correct?”

[Archmagister]

Narrow minded is the expression.

[Ceno]

Narrow minded is the expression.

This from a guy who puts others on ignore.

[medea_fleecestealer]

Let’s stick to the thread subject shall we? Otherwise the thead will be closed.

[DeputyChuck]

Different people operate under different assumptions depending on what their frame of reference is.

I get why they didn’t understand what you meant at first (cause I wasn’t getting it either, hence my questions)

But there is no point in taking miscommunication personally.
Sometimes if one person doesn’t understand what you’re saying, it’s on them, but if a lot of people don’t get it, maybe you need to rephrase what you’re saying. Communication is a 2-way street, and getting frustrated over it is not going to help.

What I’m getting is that you’re looking for:

“All POSSIBLE builds that revolve around a complete damage type conversion for their main skill, no matter if it’s unreasonable… as long as it’s possible”

Am I right ?

[Archmagister]

Communication is a 2-way street, and getting frustrated over it is not going to help.

No. Communication is selection. Either you get me or you don’t.
If you get me, fine. If not and you still try honestly (thus NOT attacking me as OP), fine. But if not and you start nagging like a beat housewife, then it’s a NO from me. Let’s leave it at that.

To the matter at hand:

“All POSSIBLE builds that revolve around a complete damage type conversion for their main skill, no matter if it’s unreasonable… as long as it’s possible”

Am I right ?

Hmhmhm… well, somewhat close and somewhat NOT close.

It is not about defining a main skill. And also Damage conversion is not a ‘must’.

Let’s say there is a certain combination, just like the Cold Doombolt, that no one wants to take on, as it is considered as weak from the start.

This would be the center.

Of course you cannot rely solely on Doom Bolt, thus, I would then be forced to build around it some skills, that increase performance and reliyability to THAT max, which the CENTRAL idea, in this case the cold doom bolt, allows. But THIS step would be mine.

YOUR step as example would have been: “well, no one’s taken on Cold Doombolt yet”, because reasons.

Are we getting closer to you understanding?

[DeputyChuck]

No. Communication is selection. Either you get me or you don’t.

But if not and you start nagging like a beat housewife, then it’s a NO from me. Let’s leave it at that.

Dude, I’m legit trying to bridge the gap here, no need to get defensive. I’m not nagging, I’m trying to help

Are we getting closer to you understanding?

Considering this is a genuine effort in rephrasing your main point, then yes.

There is still no way to know which ideas were tested… and abandoned because they didn’t meet that person’s criteria (which were most likely higher than yours for this considering that POSTED builds tend to be able to at least run crucible) If we’re going by your criteria, I can guess that pretty much everything has been attempted /thought of… and abandoned at least once. What gets the nod to put more effort in it is what looks promising from a builder standpoint.

For example, I know there is a possibility of making an Acid Wind devil build (there’s a conduit amulet for that) But I don’t know that anyone has tried to make it work past theorycraft… That’s a start.

I tried to make a Chaos Word of Pain build with one of the conduits, but it didn’t work great… that doesn’t mean that someone else couldn’t make it work though…

I suggest you look at all the conduit amulets, and see what kind of funky stuff they can lead to

Otherwise, go check this: Item skill modifiers - Grim Dawn Item Database (grimtools.com)

and pick a skill you think could be interesting, and look at all the items that modify it in various ways

I have a WIP Pierce infiltrator centered around this thing: Messenger’s Repeater - Items - Grim Dawn Item Database (grimtools.com)
That’s another good example, but there are SO MANY funky things that could be done…

I don’t think compiling a complete list like you want is feasible, considering we all have jobs, kids, responsibilities and whatnot… I would be interested in reading that though.

[Archmagister]

Dude, I’m legit trying to bridge the gap here, no need to get defensive. I’m not nagging, I’m trying to help

I wasn’t talking about you, how did you get that wrong!?

There is still no way to know which ideas were tested…

Not relevant.

Relevant is: naaa, I am da supabuilda and know, that this ‘Setup’ canna work! Builds like that I wanted to know.

Acid Wind devil build (there’s a conduit amulet for that) But I don’t know that anyone has tried to make it work past theorycraft… That’s a start.

Partly, as it does depend on only one gear stuff, which is HARD to get, but reg. the overall issue, it’s an example, yes.

I suggest you look at all the conduit amulets, and see what kind of funky stuff they can lead to

Already have, but I have only a few of the Blueprints, so I wait with these until I have them all.

Item skill modifiers

Well, look at the Cold Doombolt example. The point is, there is NOT any item skill modifier for that, which makes it so interesting for me.

list

The list would be generated automatically if everyone who can think of something like my example would just chip it in.

Another Occultist Ex:

Bloody Pox has Bleed (no conversions…), Vitality (all conversions possible), Poison (not sure how Poison without Acid is handled, let’s leave it out)

Sigil has Vitality, Chaos and Fire.

Doombolt has Chaos and Vitality.

So, I was expecting FOR EXAMPLE someone coming up with a Fire Bloody Pox Idea (Vitality --> Fire; and for the other two, if at all possible Chaos to Fire). A ROUGH one.

You know, I see, that most options, which are more or less 1 - 3 steps of thinking only have been taken on.

I wanted to get to Steps 4-6, if you know what I mean.

[DeputyChuck]

I wasn’t talking about you, how did you get that wrong!?

Well, you were replying to me, and said “you” several times… you can see how someone could interpret it this way…

This is what I meant by “communication is a 2-way street”
I’m pretty sure a LOT of very reasonable people in my place would have drawn the same conclusion I have. I didn’t “get that wrong” all by myself… Communication is BOTH party’s responsibility, not just the listener.

Bloody Pox has Bleed (no conversions…), Vitality (all conversions possible), Poison (not sure how Poison without Acid is handled, let’s leave it out)

Sigil has Vitality, Chaos and Fire.

Doombolt has Chaos and Vitality.

So, I was expecting FOR EXAMPLE someone coming up with a Fire Bloody Pox Idea (Vitality --> Fire; and for the other two, if at all possible Chaos to Fire). A ROUGH one.

You know, I see, that most options, which are more or less 1 - 3 steps of thinking only have been taken on.

I wanted to get to Steps 4-6, if you know what I mean.

I get what you mean, but at that point we,re basically looking at taking every skill that deals damage, and try to make it work in every damage type… Some of these are simply not possible I get it, but some are… technically possible… but are they interesting ?

If someone makes a Aether bloody pox build, I want to see that! and I also want to know how good/bad it is!

I’ll contribute a bit here:

I love WoP, I tried to make builds out of it
I tried Bleed, Pierce, Elemental, Aether, Chaos and Vitality

I also love Vire’s might
I have a fire build, and also tried Pierce/Bleed. Haven’t tried Acid yet, but I know some people did. Nobody tried to make a Cold build out of it that I’m aware of …

My thought process is usually more like browsing items, and try to imagine what could I do with them… So it’s kinda like the opposite of what you’re doing.

I would love to make a build out of Stonefist Rebuke, but I can’t wrap my head around the best way to use it…

And I really did try to make a build around Gulgazor’s heart too… didn’t work

I hope that’s a starting point

[tqFan]

I would love to make a build out of Stonefist Rebuke, but I can’t wrap my head around the best way to use it…

And I really did try to make a build around Gulgazor’s heart too… didn’t work

I thought about Stonefist Rebukes memes a lot too and the best what I’ve come up with is Physical FoI Deceiver

• impossible Badge of Mastery warning!

For Gulgazor there’s

• Ranged Acid Deceiver but it’s a serious build so a more meme would be

• SSF Beginner 2h Biting Blades Acid Infiltrator
  Again Gulgazor for full Pierce conversion in SSF circumstances

  • to use Gulgazor Fire conversion I’d level with Acid Conflagration till I have Seal of Blades

  • to those that don’t know - Biting Blades are pretty strong because they hit twice if you use them correctly

    • I think aiming behind enemies probably with Force Move might be needed

[Archmagister]

Well, you were replying to me, and said “you” several times… you can see how someone could interpret it this way…

Yeah, happens if ‘one’ has to use this ridiculously primitive excuse for a language called english… No, ‘you’ did not mean you personally but ‘you’ as in the opposite of me

Learn yourself some german, it is much more precise.

Edit: think about it: why would I want to attack you as the only one trying to work shit out? See? I usually expect people to see these… interconnections?

but are they interesting ?

Yes, to me. That’s the whole point. IF there are oversights in buildvariants then I expect them to be there.

If someone makes a Aether bloody pox build, I want to see that! and I also want to know how good/bad it is!

EX-FUCKIN’-SACTLY!!! Now we are talking…

I love WoP

Combination of Occ and Inq based on Vit is my next toon. I hope… still farming for Radaggan. Or Wendigo Spirits. Or Aetherial Missives…
CoF and WoP are Killers together.

My thought process

Well, that changes all the time. It was skills, then switched to Devotions, than to gear and now back to skills…

I hope that’s a starting point

It is. Finally someone UNDERSTOOD. Omg…

[DeputyChuck]

Yeah, happens if ‘one’ has to use this ridiculously primitive excuse for a language called english… No, ‘you’ did not mean you personally but ‘you’ as in the opposite of me

Learn yourself some german, it is much more precise.

English isn’t my first language either, but I prefer it online specifically because it is more precise than French

[Archmagister]

ah, I love to hear french, even if I don’t understand much, learning Latin didn’t help…

Btw, be warned, we are driftig off topic and ‘they’ don’t like it

[tqFan]

For example, I know there is a possibility of making an Acid Wind devil build (there’s a conduit amulet for that) But I don’t know that anyone has tried to make it work past theorycraft… That’s a start.

I tried to make a Chaos Word of Pain build with one of the conduits, but it didn’t work great… that doesn’t mean that someone else couldn’t make it work though…

I suggest you look at all the conduit amulets, and see what kind of funky stuff they can lead to

Otherwise, go check this: Item skill modifiers - Grim Dawn Item Database (grimtools.com)

and pick a skill you think could be interesting, and look at all the items that modify it in various ways

I have a WIP Pierce infiltrator centered around this thing: Messenger’s Repeater - Items - Grim Dawn Item Database (grimtools.com)
That’s another good example, but there are SO MANY funky things that could be done…

• I used this Acid WD conduit in 3 Shaman builds but never for WD themselves but rather as support / for conversion / RR:

  • Acid PS Conjurer (only this one tested)
  • Acid Storm Totems / Guardian Archon
  • Acid Shadow Strike + other skills Trickster

• Chaos WoP Conduit - just use it with Voidsoul and FoI

  • or you can use 100% Elemental to Chaos and make yourself some Chaos Obliteration build with WoP support

• Pierce Infiltrators with Messenger’s Repeaters are top tier, very strong in SSF / beginner build too