My understanding of the item’s design is that Savagery is supposed to be used as a supporting skill with its second and third nodes, considering the focus on burn and Storm Touched.
It’s possible, but then the mods to Fire Strike are exactly the same, and Fire Strike is no supporting ability. If it had been intended by the developers that the ability would be used solely for the Tenacity stacks, then the dagger would have points to Tenacity instead of Storm Touched. For a fire conversion build ST only provides burn damage and attack speed… and what else are you going to use attack speed on if not attacking?
I think the potential is there for fire Savagery to be good simply with physical to fire conversion and some points to Savagery. That would enable a build like this to work: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2E6gGbV
Well I thought EoR would be the main skill so the attack speed would make sense.
But yeah FS support looks really unappealing.
It would be possible to stack up Savagery to get the attack speed to spin for a while, but the stacks decay every 2 seconds, and it doesn’t provide any help buffing fire damage so that sounds like more trouble than it’s worth. Better to get enough attack speed and stats so you can spin without it, even if that means you’re probably rerolling a Shieldbreaker instead.
To me, if you’re going to put in 16+ points in Savagery to get the 8 charges, all those points in Tenacity, and pump Storm Touched in addition then that becomes the main event, not a supporting ability.
I’m a simple man… I just want a straightforward build that works. 
It felt like fire Savagery with support from Divine Mandate would be strong. But the lack of conversion (like there is on 2 different weapons for RF) and the lack of skill points means it underperforms severely compared to using RF with similar gear. If their answer to that is “just use RF,” then I live with it, but I can still miss the potential.
LoL and AA skill as supporting role? with conversion modifier? Along with other AA skill? Nope. That’s dps loss, it only works with 2h primal strike to get bonusses from savagery line. Stopping EoR to hit savagery every 2 sec? That’s not gonna work. Using RF and hitting savagery once in a while? That might have a chance though if you focus on RF with dual soulblades or blazehearts you’ll get better results and then no need for shaman class. And if you make a burn build that hit&runs, judgment might be your main skill but still it won’t be enough damage output, hit savagery+ judgment then run? lol there are better alternatives. If you can get savagery to retaliation damage to attack modifier from somewhere else(but is there? except dawnbreaker mace…), then a fire retaliation archon you can use savagery as support role.
Even there, Storm Touched gives % lightning retaliation, not fire. Practically any potential synergy here is not even possible.
Again, if you have physical to fire conversion to Savagery, it opens up new possibilities. You could do Alladrah + Soulblade or Servitor, and have Savagery and RF sharing WPS and buffing each other. You could do Alladrah + shield and benefit from the flat on Shield Training (and Shattering Smash too I think?). Or you could use Alladrah + Barrog’s with a fire roll and push Savagery DPS much higher. That’s already three new build ideas that would work at endgame that aren’t viable now, not counting the fact that even double Alladrah’s is terrible right now because of not being able to get points in Savagery or utilize the physical damage in Mogdrogen’s. You can use the flat from Stormcaller’s Pact, but for this build that’s suboptimal.
For reference, I took this Archon build to SR 70 with very little trouble (considering that I’m a dumbass who can’t play). The weapons were literally just the first two cleavers that dropped, one does not even have any flat on it. It doesn’t look like anything special on paper, but it does about twice the damage overall compared with the double-dagger setup: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/xZym7pnZ
@fordprefect You’re contradicting yourself and not making sense. Help me understand.
EoR isn’t even an AA skill.
What makes Primal Strike unique for using Savagery compared to other attack speed-based abilities? Savagery can be used for the buff even on casters.
I know that EoR has a windup, but you’re dooming yourself if you’re not stopping to cast Wind Devil anyway. And that’s even slower on an attack speed-based build than stacking up Savagery. EoR even works with e.g. Doom Bolt or Word of Pain support for chaos damage.
Btw I’m not conviced the conversion would solve/greatly help the problem. Daggers and Scepters can work exceptionally well for autoattackers (Fang of Ch’thon, Blazeheart, Chillheart, Heart of Theodin). And the damage on Mog’s Pact is so low I doubt it’s worth taking.
EoR isn’t a default attack skill, though it’s an auto attack skill since you spam them but ofc technically game don’t describe it like that since it’s also channelling. But when you look closely all spam skills are kinda channeling without interruption because if you stop pushing the lmb/rmb weapons won’t hit either. Channel ones just has more consequence for stopping since you start slow. So I’m not conradicting myself, though you’re right about wind devil which I didn’t think of that since it’s all fire shaman class is like a ghost but that makes it worst since you have to use Savagery, Wind Devil, Judgment, too much rotation for my melee spam attack concept and it’s worse with eor.
Well, usually “auto attack” is used as “default weapon attack” among players, so there’s the confusion. Channeling skills are still different enough from others. I see what you mean that using all those would be too clunky, and people often complain about Savagery feeling like that, so hopefully the skill itself can be changed.
The contradiction was that Savagery can’t work at all as support for an AA skill, but after you said it had a chance with RF.
I helped @Tarazet to make a fire savagery build because I also find it interesting, it is not possible, not even with hit&run build; with EoR? you don’t need the shaman class, there are better alternatives, It’s already has too much interruption from monsters, extra two skill to hit less? with RF? again no need for shaman, shieldbreaker or paladin would be much better, even sentinel. It’s just that so burn modifier to savagery is useless, using savagery as a support skill is not suitable for my play style, I don’t like Wind Devil either; I have a 100 level druid which I had fun while leveling but it’s just Pita to play so I only use it like bank.
The actual damage numbers on Savagery and Righteous Fervor aren’t that different. They should be able to perform the same, and Savagery maybe even a little better because Tenacity grants you OA, at the expense of not having the armor bonus. Instead RF has double the sheet damage in a similar build because it’s actually supported by the gear; I can get it to 26/16 and I can use axes with more inherent DPS. And that’s with some pretty crappy green weapons, not even optimal ones or Soulblades which would be even stronger. And the flat damage on Mogdrogen’s Pact, when it gets added to RF, adds about 5% to each base hit, multiplied by the RF charges; that is not a small amount. Plus that also pulls in the flat Internal Trauma from Divine Mandate and converts that to burn too.
Daggers can work for AA if the class has really excellent synergy and support for it. They have lower damage so they need to make up for that. The synergy is missing here; it’s like they designed it for EoR and then said “as long as we’re doing this, let’s add lightning to fire conversion on fire strike and savagery and let the players figure it out.” Well, I tried it and the results were abysmal. On a Fire Strike build it might be better, but I suspect not.
There are plenty of 2H builds that use Savagery that are absolute DPS monsters. None of the changes I’m asking for would impact those builds at all. It needs some help to work for 1H. It could also make for interesting possibilities for Vindicator, Elementalist, Conjurer, Druid in addition to Archon, but Archon is where I see the most potential for synergy.
lol.
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@fordprefect I like Shaman class, matter of preference. Wind Devil and Wendigo Totem are both great for devotion procs in melee and Blood Pact gives you an ADCTH boost. So it can support a melee AA style very nicely if you’re willing to play the piano. Obviously it offers more for 2H but it is not hopeless for 1H.
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/p25k9XmZ This is probably to only way to play fire savagery. You basically hit&run, wait till Ascension, then go use judgment, spam savagery, hit brutal slam when active; when ascension over use absolution keep hitting&throwing, then run 
use judgment and throw shield once in a while and spam Wind Devil while running, ascension up, go tank again. Good burn stack. Though it will slow…
That build has extremely low OA. Otherwise neat concept.
I’m aware, I just proving over and over fire savagery can’t be done. And since the build has low regen, no life steal, the only way to survive is absorption stack and I can’t get OA with absorption devotions.
The weapon has no flat, so even dual-wielding them to double up on the bonus you have no sustain power because the dagger’s weapon damage is pathetic. There is exactly one possible combination in Elementalist, since Flame Touched gives flat fire, but then why on earth would even the most stubborn Shaman enthusiast use Savagery instead of Fire Strike?
I guess there’s an outside possibility Druid could be viable using Savagery and CT, maybe? Like a fire version of Krieg DK except with no stats.
Perhaps but not with Alladrah’s Blade; https://www.grimtools.com/calc/pZrxQX52 just a quick theorucraft can be a lot better, though I don’t know any reason why anyone choose such a class combo to make such build.
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