New player - Feedback after 60 hours

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

Recently got the game, dropped 60 hours into it exclusively in B31 and 1.0.0. I gotta say this game does some things very right, but other things very wrong. I played on and off coop with a RL friend and here’s our issues with the game…

  • There’s so many components and most of them only drop from certain mob types. This makes farming them tedious because you have to farm X spot, remake game, repeat. That isn’t fun at all. I want to just play the game, and I should be able to find all the components I need while farming for items.
  • Certain green items required for crafting certain items. Crafting is tedious enough as-is.
  • No component bag. 8 years of development this simple thing that would be a huge quality of life improvement doesn’t exist? How?!
  • Farming to Nemesis rep takes entirely too long. I mean really, doing it on one character is awful but doing it on multiple characters?
  • Nemesis spawns are annoying to farm. I thought they’d just be a chance to spawn instead of a elite mob, but nope, they have dedicated random spawn points and are a nightmare to find without checking maps online. I don’t even bother because it’s just not fun.
  • Overall way too much “make game, check/kill X, remake game” type gameplay due to exclusive loot tables and/or exclusive spawn locations.
  • Horrible performance regardless of settings at 4K on a 3770k @ 4.5GHz and Titan X during really big fights. Titan Quest never got optimized either… can’t say I’m surprised.
  • This game seems to want you to do multiple characters, but is very alt unfriendly due to Nemesis rep grind and never having enough mats to support multiple characters. My friends just use a trainer and cheat these things on every new character.
  • Map not being shared between difficulties/characters. It’s a static map, why not? Luckily, I found a work around just by copying files on my computer.
  • Lose interest fast after level 85. If you farm for 20 hours and get zero upgrades, you feel like you completely wasted time. Games like this need an end game system that allows the character to grow more after reaching max level so you always feel like you are accomplishing something. See Diablo 3 or Marvel Heroes.
  • Allow us to have Auras/Buffs autocast (or make them passives). It’s very tedious to constantly have to buff yourself 7-8 times every game you make and every time you die.
  • Lack of proper tutorial. I didn’t even know you could put components and augments on a single piece of gear until after beating Elite. Lots of stats that don’t have very detailed tooltips. Lots of skills that have very hard to understand tooltips. Overall high learning curve because you have to alt tab out and read someone else explaining the game’s mechanics.
  • No end game. Most other ARPGs have some type of system that max characters can do (Maps, Rifts, etc) that keeps the game fresh at max level.

Overall I enjoy the game but I feel like some very simple steps could have been done to make it a lot better. Things that should have been done before the game released, and hopefully when we start seeing mods these things will be addressed.

2

Dont really see how they did anything “very” wrong. Half of your complaints are about things that make an ARPG an ARPG. Before there was “end game progression” (ex: d3, poe, marvel heroes) all there was to do was farm for gearn specific boss runs and remake. This game is a traditional arpg in every sense of the word. The other half of your complaints are a lack of hand holding. Hate to say it but simply reading a component tells you EXACTLY what it does and where it can be applied after that it is up to the play to experiment with them to see if it fits in to their specific build or not. I think too many people have become way too dependant upon others to hold their hands (ex: video and written guides) which I am not saying is a bad thing but you are holding the fact they wont CLEARLY tell you how what goes where against them. Finally this arpg is all about exploration! Get out there and find things! All in all I cant really say that any of these negatives you posted are really negatives at all.

3

I second this opinion. I knew when I first picked up a component I needed to look at it, and WOW. it told me what to do. I mean, was not brain science… But I guess I come from a different generation of video game players, before written guides… Or online guides for that matter.

Reading alot of forums these days, and a lot of posts are… “Explain this to me…” or “What character should I play…”

For me, the easiest answer is… Find out yourself. I don’t understand why you would get a game, and want spoon fed answers after getting said game… Why play it if not to find out for yourself?

4

Please dont mistake this as ‘‘blind fanboyism’’ but I mostly disagree with all your complaints. Except maybe performance issue on big battles. Game is not highly multithreaded and is CPU bound for most people.

Regarding the rest… farming… using trainers… meh…
Just play the game, you are not supposed to have all the components in the world in the first place. I barely farm ever. If you want to have almighty characters and pre explored maps and know the location of everything, dont waste your time farming and do like your friend and use cheats.

But if you want some challenge and have a good time, play only using the loot you find and never look back, just kill and try not to die. And Don’t disregard yellow items :stuck_out_tongue:

5

There’s a learning curve that might irritate some and enthrall others, but after you’ve played for a while you’ll change your opinion. Every decent arpg I’ve ever played that’s worth play involved some grinding, and a lot of working the skills. So chill out for a bit and then come back and tell us how you feel about the game. Good luck!

6

Dont get me wrong here, but one of the devs was playing in elite with all yellow items and no components…so ahh you really shouldnt have to use them. but they do explain to you what they do and where you can use them.

farming for things? well that all ARPG’S

performance, is well, maybe not the best, but some how my potato laptop is getting better fps than some, so idk there. :undecided:

crafting is alot easier in GD than POE and alot easier to understand than D2 rune words. in POE you would spend 1000 hours self found to get 2 ex to craft with, which is just dumb. With GD you just need a few MI’s, scrap and iron bits, the only exception is manticore eyes… which ive never needed alot of to craft the item i want. anyways really not that bad.

as far as end game… well you have only played 60 hours… end game is literally the same in all ARPGS… so once again IDK there.

7

don’t really see it, all components drop in many different places

  • Certain green items required for crafting certain items. Crafting is tedious enough as-is.

so some items are a bit harder to craft than others, that is generally the case

  • No component bag. 8 years of development this simple thing that would be a huge quality of life improvement doesn’t exist? How?!

because nothing is more stupid than storage for one item type only. I rather have generic storage than specialized one, allows me to use it for what I need it for.

  • Farming to Nemesis rep takes entirely too long. I mean really, doing it on one character is awful but doing it on multiple characters?

then don’t do it. You get there just from playing the game and farming, that does not have to happen while you are still in normal, esp given your next point

  • Nemesis spawns are annoying to farm. I thought they’d just be a chance to spawn instead of a elite mob, but nope, they have dedicated random spawn points and are a nightmare to find without checking maps online. I don’t even bother because it’s just not fun.

because them spawning like a random hero would make them easier to find… NOT

  • Overall way too much “make game, check/kill X, remake game” type gameplay due to exclusive loot tables and/or exclusive spawn locations.

that entirely depends on how you choose to play

  • Horrible performance regardless of settings at 4K on a 3770k @ 4.5GHz and Titan X during really big fights. Titan Quest never got optimized either… can’t say I’m surprised.

same engine more or less, could probably be done with better multi-core support

  • This game seems to want you to do multiple characters, but is very alt unfriendly due to Nemesis rep grind and never having enough mats to support multiple characters. My friends just use a trainer and cheat these things on every new character.

not sure how you have too little mats, you have twice the mats with 2 chars than with 1, unless you farm a lot which I don’t really have to do for mats

  • Map not being shared between difficulties/characters. It’s a static map, why not? Luckily, I found a work around just by copying files on my computer.

not sure that is a good idea, by not sharing it, I at least know where each char has been. Sharing seems to be the inferior option here…

  • Lose interest fast after level 85. If you farm for 20 hours and get zero upgrades, you feel like you completely wasted time. Games like this need an end game system that allows the character to grow more after reaching max level so you always feel like you are accomplishing something. See Diablo 3 or Marvel Heroes.

not interested, keep it as it is. I hate these endgames shenanigans that are supposed to keep me playing the same char, this is not a subscription based MMO where me sinking more time in benefits the developer.

Some people seem to like it though

  • Allow us to have Auras/Buffs autocast (or make them passives). It’s very tedious to constantly have to buff yourself 7-8 times every game you make and every time you die.

would not mind that

  • Lack of proper tutorial. I didn’t even know you could put components and augments on a single piece of gear until after beating Elite. Lots of stats that don’t have very detailed tooltips. Lots of skills that have very hard to understand tooltips. Overall high learning curve because you have to alt tab out and read someone else explaining the game’s mechanics.

not sure I agree here, why don’t you just try it and see how it goes ? beats looking up stuff on the internet to me

  • No end game. Most other ARPGs have some type of system that max characters can do (Maps, Rifts, etc) that keeps the game fresh at max level.

the whole world scales to you, that is your endgame arena. Random maps in a game made up of random areas is no different… I have not liked random areas in any game as a feature yet, just not random enough to be meaninggful. You still fight the same mobs in the same scenery, might as well be static, at least then I know where to go

8

I don’t believe I ever stated components were hard to understand how to apply?

I stated I didn’t know you couldn’t place augments (rep items) and components on the same piece of gear. I thought they were the same and it was one or the other. It was never explained to my knowledge.

My friend I was cooping with never caught it either, the only reason we found out after 40 something hours was because someone told us and it made the game so much easier.

See bold.

Yes, I hate POE. I quit that game after ~150 hours when realizing how they designed it around trading with players. If they had a “self found” league that dramatically buffed drop rates for solo play, that’d make POE pretty dang fun for me.

Keep in mind I made this post after spending 4 hours farming for 3 Manticore eyes and then another couple hours to get the ~6 ecto I needed to make my relic. That was with two players, does instanced loot not give each player their own set of mats? It was an extremely frustrating process.

9

That is a good point from ther perspective of a new player. I hope the devs add the information to the game tip /codex system.

10

Exactly, if you’ve been playing this game since beta you tend to learn new features as they were added, so it’s hard to understand where a new player is coming from. This is my opinion of coming in fresh/blind with the release version. Simple tooltip additions like “Stack with components”, would go a long ways.

I’m still playing this game even with my gripes. It’s a great game overall and I feel I got my money’s worth.

Drops in Ultimate could still be better though… 6 hours and not one legendary. =(

11
  • farming components, imo, is tedious. But not that bad. It’s just after I had sunk a few hundred hours in I just mod then in now. I feel I’ve done my time.
  • green items for crafting. meh it makes me run areas I normally don’t. I have a love hate relationship here.
  • nemesis monsters, I’ll a dress both points. I agree they take too long to spawn. I don’t think finding them is so bad. They aren’t necessarily meant to be farmed. That’s what SoT and BoC is for, but they really aren’t that hard to find. They’re intended to come up a bit organically.
  • exclusive loot tables are not common in GD, and where they are it’s not too hard to get the exclusive item in most cases. Meh.
  • old engine. Not biggest deal. runs smooth for me generally :).
  • the game easily supports multiple characters if you aren’t lazy. I’ve been trying some 100% self found builds of my own design out and it’s been a blast.
  • I do wish map was shared between characters. doesn’t make sense but don’t see why not… the map is the same.
  • for fucks fucking sake. This is not D3. The end game is congrats, you’re strong, help others or make a new build. ARPG’s were never meant for an end game. each arpg end game is grindy and repetitive. Mod one in yourself instead of complaining about what is an inherently flawed concept that you cling to because you refuse to consider that maybe you’ve finished the game. /rant. Also, survival mode is coming
  • boo boo, I die and need to keep track of auras and buffs. Tip 1, don’t be lazy. Tip 2, don’t die and half the problem is solved.
  • tooltips are often a convuluted nightmare I agree. Have to come to the forum to understand combat mechanics is a no no. still things I don’t understand 100%. Tutorial not needed but the section they added with expanations needs more filling out.
    -end game. I already said my thoughts.

Look, I don’t mean to to be overly rude but you are coming from a place of assumption. That what you think would be good is correct, which is fine, but more annoyingly you presume that the things you want are simple.

All of it takes work, and some of it would take a lot of work. (End game) nemesis monsters are something only a fraction of the playerbase will fight anyway, so they aren’t the number one priority. The devs have promised balance patches and an expansion that will bring some balance changes as well. First step is making the content that affects the majority of players as good as possible. Then you tackle other things.

I agree that components and tooltips could be improved a lot. I think the latter is your strongest complaint.

12

The main problem with grim dawn is that the old timers are making a lot of fanboism, and it doesn’t serves the game well.

Crate, as a company, is interested in creating a good game first, but also in making money.

Some of the complaints the guy have is VERY valid for new player. The game is very obfuscated, almost to the point it feels like it was intended. Be it a design decision or not I don’t know.

Just an example: the components. People don’t want to read stuff, it take time from the gameplay experience and is not what you want to do when you launch an arpg.

Diablo got it right, and used gems/ jewels/ runes, with BIG hole in the items to implicitely explains that items can be engraved. That plus the fact that gem/ jewel/ runes implicitely carry with them the engraving aspect (anyone know/ saw once an engraved helm§ armor/ weapon …), people would intuitively know how to use those items.

It is however not the case at all with components. To know what to do with them, you have to read through the description, and then apply it to the right piece of gear, and then you will see a very tiny icon on the bottom right that says that the item was component-augmented. I mean it is very noob-unfriendly.

Being noob-friendly is not a default, even in arpgs.

13

That looks a lot like what I was wanting, was not aware this was coming.

14

It exists to an extent, but that’s not all. As it was already mentioned, it could be, more often, the conflict between long term experienced players who know almost everything thus consider mechanics and rules natural, and the new ones who are still to learn and find all new and strange.

Fanboism is as disastrous, as the will to dumb down the game, and to alter the complexity to the lack of experience, while shorting the learning curve. IMO a great part of the replies in a defensive style, to the newbies, come out of this.

I guess the easiest way of solving these issues will be if Crate rework the wording and descriptions of skills/mechanics once again, and initiate major improvements of grimpedia.
Such complicated games are impossible to learn without reading, and it’s the fastest way to shorten the learning process. Empirical education requires much more time and efforts.
If the information exists and is systemized, everything is up to the player. There’s no excuse if you got the tools, but refuse to learn. But for now these almost don’t exist.
Also let’s not forget there’s stuff one have to learn just by playing the game, by trial and mistakes. In practice not everything can be described and explained in advance.

15

Hellcat said everything.
I’m waiting patiently for someone to complain about secret areas not marked on the map :smiley:

16

yes, for a few components, the places they drop in are limited, still no issue with that.

Apart from Manticore eyes there are not many mats I ever farm, and for those you get them all in one spot in large numbers, better than having to find say a frozen zombie for it to drop.

How is that stupid? It would be an additional bag obviously and not impact your current storage other than giving you more space.

then give me more general storage.

Anything limiting storage to one type of item just means I cannot use it for what I need once my inventory gets full. That is what makes it stupid, you limit how I use my inventory for no good reason.

How would I know how Nemesis spawns work without grinding it in the first place or looking it up?

if you don’t look it up, you do not even know about them I would assume, then you find out about by chance, which is fine too, it’s not like they tell you about each thing you encounter beforehand

They would obviously be more common and not limited to 1 per game with that system. You should come across them regularly while playing given how long it takes to farm the status.

they have some guaranteed drops, they are not meant to be easy to farm

If you need X mat and that mat only drops in X area, that is the only way to play if you want to craft something.

you needing specific material is rare enough, much of it you find naturally

The rest you can grab during farming runs, just do them in the appropriate area (with very few exceptions like the Manticore)

I never stated add random areas.

Well, you certainly implied it

“No end game. Most other ARPGs have some type of system that max characters can do (Maps, Rifts, etc) that keeps the game fresh at max level.”

That certainly sounds more like asking for a map system than for another high level dungeon…

It’d just been nice to have some more big dungeons that scale a bit above max level. Right now we have two big dungeons in the entire game, and they are locked behind skeleton keys. I’d like to have seen more 3+ level dungeons with cool bosses at the end…

Why the focus on dungeons, run the other bosses and if you feel you need a bigger area to get to them (3 levels…), start two rift gates away :wink:

More content is obviously always better, I don’t see a 3rd dungeon changing your “No end game. Most other ARPGs have some type of system that max characters can do (Maps, Rifts, etc) that keeps the game fresh at max level.” at all however, not sure why to you it makes a big difference