Newbie questions and ideas

I would like to thank the members of the community that pleasantly volunteer their knowledge of the game and answer newbie questions. The more I read the more questions arise. Answers to my questions posed have been great and they end up spurring new questions and ideas.

From what I understand of GD’s design, new players will encounter points of transition throughout their journey. For example:

1 - Start out with one build/path for leveling and transition at level 94+ to an end-game farming build to prepare for one or more end-game builds

2 - Once all of the parts of an end-game build are acquired, transition to the end-game build, beat the entire game and farm more loot

3 - Optionally transition to a modified end-game build for niche activities such as Nemesis boss/hero farming, end-game Crucible farming, etc.

So far it seems that there are a few leveling builds tied to specific class combos that lead to specific farming builds. Experienced GD players know and understand these builds and thus there is less effort and motivation to uncover additional paths to the end-game outside of new content and class mastery related discovery/farming. Therefore, new players are directed to walk the paths of what is already known for a relatively easy journey to the end-game; especially new solo self-found players.

Question #1 - does every class mastery combo have a relatively efficient leveling build and detailed leveling guide? (ex: Demolitionist/Occultist/Nightblade start, level 1-50 or 1-60, add 2nd class mastery, continue to level 94+)

Question #2 - does every class mastery combo have a level 94+ starter farming build with detailed leveling guide for end-game prep?

If the answer is yes to both questions then viability bias (for starter end-game farming builds) is assumed to be non-existent. With viability bias removed any new player can start the game and follow transition points to the end-game. This means reaching a progression wall while leveling or starting the end-game is only a temporary situation. This also means that a player can pick any starting class mastery.

If a starter end-game farming build doesn’t exist for every class combo (discovered or yet uncovered) then viability bias exists and choices are thus limited for new players.

Have you checked out the “Builds for beginners” here Build Compendium X (Forgotten Gods) ?

Count the number of class combos and playstyles and then report it back to me. I counted 19 class combos + 3 solo class = 22 in total.

Heck earlier today I read a complaint that there were too many beginner builds to choose from :stuck_out_tongue: xD

And look, do you have any idea how time consuming it is to make these guides and maintaining them? Be glad for what you already have to choose from I’d say.

I think the most important thing for a beginner player to think about when they decided to “start playing serious” or whatever you wanna call it is “what is my preferred playstyle” (I prefer casters/mages - both kiters and spammers, and tanky melee chars) and after that “is there any particular damage type I fancy” (for instance I love Lightning skills in these kinda Games, but I am not that much into poison).

Since all build archetypes are covered

  • Melee sword and shield
  • Dual wield melee
  • Melee burst / skater (e.g. shadowstrike, Vires might)
  • 2H melee
  • Kite caster
  • Sustain/life leech caster
  • Channeling caster
  • Spam caster
  • Summoner / pets
  • Ranged with guns/rifle

I’d say anyone who is interested in playing “serious” have all the playstyles to choose from.

So, perhaps do your research before you post stuff like:

I also think that 99.999% of all players actually play the game first on their own, and then turn to guides if they feel that they wanna get more serious. So perhaps we do not need leveling guide and/or starting end-game farming guides for Saboteur, Apostate or Battlemage… Most players will go with the “cookie cutter” builds anyway, like warlord, paladin, vindicator, conjurer, purifier, …

Lots of RPG/APRG games have viability bias in one form or another. This includes big, well known, AAA rated games such as PoE, D2-LoD, and D3. Changes to the game in the form of patches can introduce viability bias (ex: builds being killed off) and we just got a massive set of changes. I’m asking about viability bias because I’ve encountered it in other games. There is no harm in asking questions. There is no need to take offense. I doubt you are seriously going to imply that I’m being unappreciative when I started the thread by thanking the community for its support and tolerance of newbies like me.

There are 36 class combos and you said there were a total of 22 currently documented leveling build guides (19 are combos). Does the count of 19 indicate that 17 are not viable (not having level 94+ starter end-game farming builds), or does it mean that there just are 17 combos that have yet to receive detailed written guides. No one is compelled by law to write guides and I’m fully aware that guide authorship and maintenance are time consuming. My post is part of my research.

Not everyone adheres to what you described about first time play through. With all the archetypes you listed I’m betting there is plenty of nuance which leads to questions and ideas.

You said “only a few” but I showed to you that there are 19 combos, and many of those combos have more than one build guide. It is still more than 52% of the total number of possible combos, that is not the definition of “only a few” :rofl:

As I write in that post I linked to, very seldom patch changes KILLS a beginner build guide. Some item might get changed, might get a bit weaker or stronger but it can still do the job it is supposed to do.

That is why there is more than one build guide for each kind (well channeler caster is only one but I think Nery is working on fire or aether AAR now). I also include many build ideas (without guides) that might be a suitable budget farmer build.

It is most likely a combination of both. I can only speak for myself here.

  • Some class combinations and skills are easier to level with and build around than others for beginner farmer builds (e.g. what MI’s have strong item skill modifiers, faction items, etc)
  • Some class combinations do not have a variation of viable late end-game playstyles (e.g. Saboteur, there is only one “real” end-game build for that, the Nex and Ortus dual wield build) this will lead the player into a narrow hall with a dead end. This is not good IMO, I prefer to make guides for class combos that have more than one viable late end-game option.
  • It is also a matter of time vs. interest. You can read pretty much anywhere on the internet that most people suggests Warlord, Cabalist, Oppressor, Sentinel, Warder, Vindicator etc as first starter class combo. Hence it is natural to focus on guides for those class combos (as I mentioned in a previous point) since they will be read and used the most.

1,000 Thank yous. :slight_smile:

I think you got caught-up on a specific sentence without taking it together with the rest of the paragraph. However, that doesn’t matter right now. What matters now is that you answered the question. What you described about the Saboteur is most likely viability bias. Therefore the newbie leveling and transitioning process idea only holds for some class combos. This helps a lot with deciding what to do with some of my character experiments. Some to keep, some to discard, some to shelve, and a few to spend time developing first. :slight_smile:

This is a guide that Nery did about class selection Guide for helping how to choose your build! also read the comments.

Note, its not updated for the new patch

Btw, one build structure that is missing in the beginner build section is retaliation build. Would be nice to have one of those actually.