Nullification in SR with video clip

Hello folks, hello crate, hello Zantai!

So a couple of days ago i reported some issues/feedback i had in the bug report section (double spawns).
I already touched the topic there, but since it isn’t t a bug really i thought this might be a better place to showcase and talk about it.
I appreciate that crate actually listens and hopefully can help make this awesome game even more enjoyable.
So without further ado, lets jump right into it:

Nullification / dispell is a huge run and fun killer and the main reason why I’d never try to even bother SR in Hardcore.
The lack of counterplay to this mechanic is frustrating the only real way to life through it, is by kiting Grava / dispellers.
Which not all builds are capable of.

https://clips.twitch.tv/TangibleNaiveDogDogFace
In this clip, you can clearly see the lack of counterplay even with a kiting build that runs 80% reduced trap duration due to Virtue Set perma Ascension & Aeons hourglass.
It’s simply frustrating and opposes the good-feeling the game usually gives me.
I somehow made this level due to the burn damage kiting build I’ve been utilising, however one boss shards after I faced kaisan grava, which was basically unbeatable cause Kaisan suffocates room and space to kite over time and getting nulled means being oneshot.
I’ve heard a lot of negative feedback in discord on this and wanted to share this with you.

Best regards

Reak

Imo, Grava’s nullify should be reduced to 33% of it’s original damage for SR. The issue is not the debuff Grava does, but the massive damage those balls do, and in SR you sometimes simply can not avoid those (your clip is one of the examples).

Now multiply this by how many balls he casts - I believe it’s either 4 or 5. :rolleyes:

U are missing the point, its not his damage.
A damage reduction wont help against an infinite scaling dungeon delve. The entire thing is of course capped to a certain sr level.
The dispell is the issue here.
He takes away all your buffs, which are essential for surviving and take 3-5 seconds to reapply, if you don’t get oneshot by then.

It is the damage as well. % health reduction is one of the most cheesy damage types in the game since it is hard to counter.

Yeah, I can see that. You just can’t do sh!t in such situations. I’m fine with Gravas dispell in campaign since I have more options to deal with him. I can first clear the trash and then just kite and dodge the orbs. This doesn’t really work in a tiny bossroom with Bosses that are able to trap you, even if it’s for a very short amount of time. And as you have shown in the clip, this results in absolutely cheesy and pretty much unavoidable deaths. There is just no button to press to counter this.

Two things here.

One, it is the damage. You died to two orbs and nothing else. Watched your clip in 0.25x speed to confirm that suspicion. I’d be alright seeing their damage toned down in both SR and the main campaign.

Two, anything above SR60 is liable to be unbalanced and that’s intended. So Arcane/Nullification in a boss room with who-knows-what bearing down on you? Perfectly fine.

Bonus third topic: Get some trap resist.

Ultra bonus fourth topic: Should’ve used Vire’s Might when Benn started the trap animation to put more distance between you and the orbs. Maybe the trap would expire before they reached you, or maybe the orbs would despawn altogether. But hindsight is 20/20…

I don’t think it needs damage nerf in main campaign. You can avoid it whenever you want, just check GT for how often he casts it, fight him for how long his cooldown is -1 second and run away, wait till he casts is and make it hit a wall.

In SR, it’s sometimes hard to do that, so good luck. :stuck_out_tongue:

there is always a button to press: escape, followed by exit to main menu.

I still strongly believe he dispelled me, in another video (random youtube) apparently his null is bound to a blue-ish animation
yt video
Screenshot of my Video
But okay. let’s consider a missplay on my behalf - it doesn’t change the fact that Null-deaths are simply not reactively counterplayable outside of kiting builds.

Secondly: I agree on that if there wasn’t such a great disparity between classes for my Mage Hunter sr 60 is cakewalk, my Archon laughs at it and my Melee builds which don’t run fulltank shield get stomped. This has a lot of factors and will be covered in a future post.

I agree on kiting in small rooms were you inevitably pull a lot of bosses becomes a huge issue since theres either A; to many stacked ground effects which force you to reposition - or B dots which do not allow you to move as a melee outside of certain windows - C play 3-4 mechanics on top of that in limit space. If you by then face some bosses that flood that already small area you are going to have a bad time.

Bonus third topic answer: https://i.imgur.com/vsWV5fB.png and yes i was in ascension https://i.imgur.com/8Gt2JrX.jpg since its Virtues helm Aeons build which enables a 100% uptime.

I mean, he did, but that isn’t why you died. You died because you took ~7.5k damage from one orb and then the other orb dealt the remaining 3.5k of your health pool. The orbs dispel you when they hit you.

That’s my entire point. The amount of counterplay, outside of a runaway build is non-existant.

You have to be very good at piloting. Breaking line of sight can cause cc effects and spells to miss entirely. So standing behind the statues could prevent you from getting trapped. Fighting near the statues and moving in advance so that Grava balls will be destroyed even if you get cc’d.

Otherwise the only option you have to survive are serious defences and/or high health pool. Only way to reduce %health reduction is: flat damage absorb, resistance to life reduction (not certain but it should?), max health and possibly damage reduction debuff on grava (also no idea if this does anything)? Flat damage absorb and max res will take care of the fire and chaos damage of the grava balls and high armor+flat absorb to lower the phys damage. Then you have to deal with the dispel effect as well so not that many builds could feasibly tank 2 balls and manage to survive.

I think nullification that turns off your abilities is the worst kind of BS, and it’s especially egregious in SR. If it was suppression for IDK 2-3 seconds, that I could appreciate.
I have a retaliation sentinel that I’ve gotten to shard ~45. The arcane heroes are the bane of my existence, and I’m built to take a punch. I’d hate to see what it does to more fragile and aura-dependant builds.

I love the game to bits, but nullification is asinine (and I say this with the most possible respect for a brilliant game. Aside from the nullification)

I’ve never had a problem with Grava’Thul, Arcane, or other dispelling mobs personally. I play a TSS Druid, but I get close to these types of mobs all the time. I just anticipate the nullification attacks and watch closely for the animation so I know when it’s safe to let them close the gap again.

I get that it’s still not a true melee character so I’ll just restate what Ceno posted earlier in the thread: you’re at SR 60. Of course it’s going to be imbalanced.

ascension is my flat absorb, it gets dispelled > gg

Nullification in general is a bad design, one wich not only Grim Dawn suffers. I find it incredibly anoying both in here and Path of Exile (altho there is A BIT less punishing).

Unless you know before hand that the monster you are dealing with has that skill, there is nothing you can do to prevent it, wich effectively means (most of the time) a 1- hit KO for no reason aside from expecting a reasonable monster. The main problem i see with it, is that it doesn’t “turn off”. Once you got nullified, you stay nullified until you reapply manually all your buff, including potions.

It’s like if a monster’s attack would unequip your gear. Not only negates your very precious stats. It also puts you in a hard stun, since the time you spent equiping/activating everything, is time you aren’t attacking/dodging, and gets worse with the time the engine spents calculating buffs when you activate some auras.