Of dual damage, bleed and Korba. Food for thought and endless speculation

Hi guys. I made this thread with the intention to see what opinions you have regarding dual damage support in the game and if anyone has other ideas about how to make it “work” within the game meta. Needless to say, not many would attempt a build like that for reasons we all know, so no point in going over those again. Still, even on some of the 100% conversion builds there may be some significant residual damage remaining.
I know that perhaps this issue has already been discussed in another thread and relevant conclusions were drawn at the time, but I think it doesn’t hurt to ponder about it again as the expansion is drawing near. Ofc, this is a discussion meant for possible post FG implements.

One imaginable solution comes from the new mechanic the expansion brings: adding a % of a certain damage type to attacks, as will be the case with retaliation damage. So why not extend that concept a bit? To exemplify, let’s take the literal underdog of sets: Korba. The one set that shines in some top tier builds but never in its full splendor. Because bleeding damage seems like such a waste on it. I’ve seen suggestions to replace it altogether. Imo, that won’t happen, because it’s part of the set’s theme: a bleeding, cold hearted berserker. And why not let it be so? Imagine Korba on the battlefield, slashing at his foes, tearing deep wounds into them only to have their blood turn to ice.

Practically, I’m thinking about using the same % retaliation damage added to attacks, but with bleeding instead. Well, not in the same way as for Oathkeeper, but similar (maybe). The main issue is that we still don’t know the way in which the % retaliation will be added to attacks in this case, although the latest patch changes on several items from pierce to physical retaliation seem to suggest that it will take the shape of physical damage, as to avoid conversion. If that’s the case, there’s not much hope for this idea to be extended to bleeding damage as well, though it may work very well with other damage types.
Regardless, this opens are a couple of solutions that may boost full Korba:

  1. Adding a % of flat bleeding damage to Korba’s bite, let’s say. That’s meh, as long as that % bleeding would not be added as cold. Again, we don’t know if this is doable as we have no idea how the % damage added to attacks works.

  2. Adding a % of all bleeding damage sources stacking on a target to an attack or a proc. Same as above, it would be ideal if this added damage would come in the shape of cold damage, and not bleeding. Even if the added damage would be bleeding, it may still be potent. Think about having a cumulated bleeding attack/proc on top of the ones coming from Savagery/Korba’s bite/RoS etc. that would stack on top of those as a different source of bleed.

  3. Keeping true to the berserkering theme of the set, including a full set ability, probably one triggered on crit, that would take the last, let’s say 3-5 bleeding ticks, “consume” them and release them as cold damage. Something like a cold damage blast, call it Korba’s roar/howl :stuck_out_tongue: . These numbers could be standard bleed ticks of whooping crits. More realistically, this may also come in the form of bleeding damage, depending on how the % damage added to attacks works.

This is just an example and taking Korba/bleeding damage means to stretch the speculation by quite a bit. However, I believe that this innovation that we are about to see in FG has great potential to endorse dual damage and to further build diversity. The most interesting part about it is that, as opposed to conversion, that takes the flat damage of a certain type, converts it to another and multiplies the resulting damage according to the second damage type modifier, the added damage to attacks leaves the flat damage and multiplier of a certain type as they are and takes a chunk of it to add it to a skill and have it enhanced by the skill’s own parameters. Not something unheard of, as we already have items that add damage to a certain skill. But that damage is, let’s say, a standalone implement. I may be wrong and please correct me if that’s the case but, afaik, the flat damage added by an item to a certain skill is not subject to the added damage type’s modifiers.
As opposed to that, having a % of a damage type, including multipliers, added to a skill would have a greater impact. Overall, it would mean having an alternative way of building a character, taking into account damage type support in both masteries, gear and relevant devotions. Granted, this may be seriously OP, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible to have it adjusted in small dosages. Ofc, any sort of conversion from that damage type to another would subtract from the overall damage that would be added. This may open some interesting paths, having players either rely more on conversion or on this option, or try to balance out the two in the most effective way. Also, with just one or two items that would implement this into a build that has the potential for two different damage types, it would give players the means to choose either of the two and have the one left serve as support.

I don’t know how feasible this idea may be. But I do hope that the underlying game mechanics that will make % retaliation work on attacks can be further applied in a way that would help diversity. And that it wouldn’t be a sisyphean task either. Maybe, in the likely case that the Crate team has no plans to make any major game changes in the near future, post FG release, this could be explored by modding community.

That’s about it (maybe should have opened the thread in the rants section:eek:).

I will add my 2 cents: assembling Korba Trickster is no easy task: you lack points/resists/stats for basically EVERYTHING and if you don’t have sick green pieces you will be forced to make sacrifices.

Trying to support Bleeding as well as Cold is a futile task: there are no points for Devouring Swarm and bleed/cold devotion route gonna suck big time. Plus, there is an absolute Godlike bleeding Trickster build with dual Bloodsongs + Bloodrager set that full Korba won’t even touch if you choose to play Bleeding damage with it.

So yeah, leave Bleeding to Bloodragers and Blood Knights, make Korba full Cold/Frostburn. Heck. Even Cold + Lightning Korba set would be a better idea (add something like -20% Lightning RR to Veil of Shadow and make it convert just half of Lightning damage to Cold).

I do get your point about Korba set issues. This was more of an example/speculation about upcoming % damage type added to skills. As I wrote above, I doubt it may be applicable to bleeding. Ultimately, it’s less about Korba and more about the possibilities this may open. Do you have any thoughts about that? Could this mechanic be extended to, say, lightning/aether relation in a worthwhile way?

Do you mean thoughts on combining cold and bleeding in one set? Well, it simply will be inferior to pure cold or pure bleeding trickster. Or combining two damage types in general?

I would like to have slightly modified Korba´s Frenzy for my Trickster. :stuck_out_tongue:

So i feel like there are two matters discussed here:

  1. Korba set
  2. Dual damage.

I will skip 1 cos i never really got into this set.
And 2) Is dual damage type really that far behind single target damage? I get the fact that if you focus on one type it’s easier to select proper -%R items and damage bonus, but there are some damage types that are somewhat complementing? Like fire+chaos, elemental, vitality+bleed, acid+vitality?
I know that not every combo is supported, like lighting+Poison or cold+chaos, aether+bleed, but i think that they never were planned to be compatible.
BTW im wondering if any of our GD celebrities can make a functioning build with these dual damage types (or wierd conversions) :smiley:

There are a few multi dmg builds and they’re doing alright: Malakor, Arcanor, double rune/firestrike hybrid. As for things like

lighting+Poison or cold+chaos, aether+bleed
then it’s not gonna happen.

Guess that was too lengthy of a presentation on my side. To sum it up, the main issue was if the Oathkeeper’s new mechanic, % retaliation added to skills, could be implemented to other damage types via gear and if that would be a needed/welcomed addition to the game. To have this % damage type added to skills either complement or substitute the lack of conversion on builds where set or non-set gear endorses two damage types and conversion is lacking. Or just to have an alternative to using items like Beronath or dual wielding Decrees