Hello all and congrats on the new site/game. Just my quick .02, I think a loot scaled system would work well. For example, Loot is placed in category’s A,B,C,D, etc. “A” scaled loot will be up to 5th level category equipment, “B” 10th level, etc. This way…the guy/gal who likes to farm will eventually get a complete set of level 5 equipment, but it will start to become useless when he enters the B,C, and D zones. This does not discourage farming, but does render it useless eventually. He also feels a sense of accomplishment finding a complete set of scale “A” equipment regardless of it’s effectiveness. Which also keeps the the ones who like to collect in TQ, myself included, happy coughmorestoragespacecough. Thanks for a great game and being so loyal the the community/fans. You guys are great.
We have a much improved system for assigning and balancing monster stats. In TQ it was a little chaotic and sometimes inappropriately configured. I think you’ll see less of this and encounter difficulty more as a sustained fight with a difficult enemy then a surprise death. Although, in legendary, I figure its “anything goes”. ; )
uhhh long time since i talk with you medierra, all the way back to about a year before titan quest came out!!!, congrats on the new company and the new site, game, etc etc… I won a t-shirt back then for the idea for the titan quest expansion, and still have that one and use every week actually. Enough happy though, and back on subject.
Lets talk a little bit about Farming:
why you farm? to get better items
why you need better items? cus you normally get you ass kicked by small groups of normal monsters, and when you find a bad ass boss with little ones… you will see the need to both level up or farm items.
now… whats going on with the good items, where the heck are they.???.. 90% of the time, when you receive a good … good … good item for you, is like 10 levels below and its normally far better than what you have on, that might even be another great item, that is 20 level below that you found 2 hours ago. So… it is really hard in a game to actually find items that you can use that will actually give you some good boost. most of the items are a 1/10000 chance that a huge boss will drop an item your level, and it has a 1/10000000000000 chance that it will drop a great item that is 5 levels above you, and you are willing to bust your ass in order to use it.
Now… how can you help people farm less and play more.
#1 GOOD crafting system: intead of wasting time in making a billion rare/set/legendary weapons, invest time in giving the player the ability to create their own rare/set/legendary items, even with their names on it. So I can make my Winsrp kick ass set #1, and give them some cool bonuses.
Example on how to make a good crafting system:
You need 2 thing, prime materials,and crafters. I found some wood (killed a wood monster or something), and some iron, so i go to a blacksmith and pay so they make me a sword. then i find a ruby, and a some acid, so I go to an alchemist to combine those 2 and see what comes out, this transforms into a weird substance that can be put into my sword, so i go to the blacksmith and pay again so he will merge those 2… etc etc… you can have a book of alchemy recipes, and have some combines and pure items that could be merged with what ever item you have, lets say you can add up to 10 bonuses to your sword, but the first recipes are low level, you can also increase that given bonus from the 10 you have already picked by applying a level 2 formula of the same bonus, and so on, so there you have a way to entertain players doing something useful, and a way to spend money.
#2 Add items, or bonuses or some stuff that increases your chance to find rare items: most games have this, i think even titan quest did, but they alway use some weird formula that at the end does not adds crap. the idea is simple and there should be no motive to over complicate this, lets call it the “luck” stat of your player, if you have 0, no rares for you, if you have 100% all rares… there you go, simple.
Now, the idea you propose about making a challenge area, like an arena kind of place I suppose sound like a great idea, but i think that it will become like one of those places where you will be hanging most of the game, if this game becomes a game core made item centric game, instead of a crafted item game.
On another note, you can add also more interaction with the environment by adding crafts to players, and instead of needing an NPC as a blacksmith, then you can have a player that is a blacksmith and can charge you for that service, same as a lumberjack, miner, alchemist, and a handful others that players could pick as a side profession in the game and add also a progressive leveling system for you profession. this will make the game players more usefull and since this is a downloadable game everyone should be able to connect to the web and find a blacksmith, or offer that service. Of course, a 4 player game should be a little unsufficient for such an economic approach, but maybe a 8/16 player game might suit right in, since it will be really fun to get online to find a player with a profession you need. So you would gain recipes when you level up (but you can guess them if you want) if you hit a recipe that you don’t know or someone performs a recipe for you it will be added to a recipe book, where you can always go back and check them.
just some wild ideas of how to make a game with more replay value and long time progression interest.
This is actually very similar to the crafting system we are creating. ; )
Thats good to hear.
I dont enjoy entering an area and find myself tombstoned before I know what hit me…like with the Barmanu boss and those champion tigermen to name two. 
Or - you guessed it - Toxeus. Come on, what gave you such misery that you dished it unto him and made him what he is?! 
That asswipe alone is responsible for so many untimely deaths, Barmanu doesn’t come close. The Secret Passage version of him, that is. So far i haven’t even found him outside SP, where he’s supposed to dig even deeper graves for my unwary travellers…
I still want to see him in GD.
I think he is mostly talking about normal difficulty.
Don’t worry, in Legendary there will still be ridiculous uber heroes that run out of nowhere and pwn you.
Now I’m sad again.
Legendary Dactyl 2.0?? :furious:
I find that boss runs and farming in general can go both ways. There are times where I’m perfectly fine with grinding and I genuinely have fun doing it. This is when I just want to relax and “beat some sh*t up a bit”, and possibly walk away with some type of rewards after doing it.
Obviously this depends entirely on how the game works, whether “grinding” involves exploring a sandbox world with some type of goal in mind and continously facing a series of microchallenges, or if you’re repeatedly loading a savegame before a 20 minute bossfight that has a 4.5% chance to drop the set gloves you need (which you could probably just obtain via a mod or editing your savegame anyway).
I don’t think that deliberately limiting farming would be what I’d want. It would give me this sense of the game telling me “no, you’re not allowed to play this way” rather than it encouraging me to play in a more fun way. On the other hand, I don’t like it when the rewards for some type of monotonous and unfun playstyle is so rewarding that you’d feel punished for not doing it.
All in all, since items and loot are such a big part of these games, I think it’s natural that farming will as a result always be part of them as well. That’s why I feel it’s important to be conscious and deliberate about farming when making them.
I would also like to congratulate everyone at Crate on their new website!
Well here’s a quote, “The path of least resistance, should also be the path of most fun.” That’s a direct quote from Jay Wilson, developer of Diablo 3. It rings true in many respects.
First lets set out in determining the path of least resistance. For the Diablo 2 player it was boss runs - the path of least resistance implies a game-play strategy that all players use. They use this strategy to advance their Character or their account to one extent or the other. Boss runs in Diablo 2 were very monotonous and quite unsavory, run to boss, kill boss, there is no other game-play mechanic tied to it.
A game-play mechanic is essentially how the player interacts with the game, so the player clicked 1 button 200 times and the boss died. This is not the most fun way to play a game, especially with the technology we have nowadays. So how do we make this more fun for the player?
Well, while there’s been a lot of things the people have done, Torchlight for one stopped spawning bosses once you killed them, this is actually a pretty interesting and dynamic way to change the game. You get the benefit of slaying a boss once and getting really good drops, but beyond that you can not continue to run past everything to further obtain good loot.
However, because this will be a Multiplayer game, you will not be able to de-spawn a boss just because another player has entered the game. So how do we make this path the most fun? well, by adding extra fun game-play mechanics. The Diablo 3 developers have decided that it is time to end the Era of potions and mana, and go back to the drawing board to develop fun and interactive game-play elements. They’ve decided to crunch the numbers, go outside what was originally defined by Diablo, and create new-interactive and fun elements.
So, there are ways to make a game more fun, but they require a little innovation. You have to imagine, what will be a fun game-play mechanic, while fighting a boss? What other games have made fighting bosses more interesting and fun?
I will tell you right now - I’m not a fan of potion hoarding, or Mana for that respect, and I am for-sure not a fan of Town Portals - when you’re out on the battle field, you should feel like you have to plan your attack, at least for a few seconds.
You want the path of least resistance, to be the path of most fun.
I think the solution lies in more heroes and uber heroes. Also, non-story-boss related challenge levels (I could be wrong in that this is just a suggestion by player base and not actually in development). Better drops from that. Although, when these happen, it’s just a different kind of farming. Although, with regards to that, I would like to see a proof of farming in that you can wield your new toys in harder and more challenging places. That’s just me.
Potions? No idea. Maybe a return of mana per kill? Based on level comparison between player and monster? Not sure really what to suggest.
Town portals? I’m not sure what you mean by “plan your attack, at least for a few seconds.” Does this mean you want to be rid of town portals? Do you have any suggestions?
Yes, it means I don’t like town portals, they are a quick “get out of jail” free card that you almost always have, this doesn’t help you enjoy the game more, it causes a break in action. This break in action should not be in an ARPG, an ARPG should promote action and fighting.
While you’re out on the field you’re always in “Action” once you’ve reached a place of sanctuary you are no longer in action and are now simply exploring the items you’ve accumulated while playing.
I have played the Diablo 3 demos, and one thing I have taken a liking to is Health Orbs, they are a definitive addition to the ARPG genre, that literally rocked my perceptions of ARPG.
Instead of town portals, Check points and Way points make the game easier to get back into action and give the player options. Town portals, as a last resort is not far-fetched (Something that has a long cooldown). However they could be easily exploited, if they worked the same as they did in Diablo 2 (Having 2 up allows unlimited access to town).
So, I think the game should promote healthy combat, and shouldn’t force the player to retreat to town, the developers need to give the players enough tools to get out of a sticky situation, or to triumph over every foe.
So are you saying take out town portals (or severely limit them)? If so, I think that’s a terrible idea. In fact, I think it’s an idea that would actually harm the game.
I remember a reviewer of TQ marking points off the game because he said there was no way to return to town and their backpack filled up so quick…so he was constantly forced to lug stuff back and fourth all the time. Now, obviously the reviewer was a moron as there was a portal function in TQ, but I think it clearly shows that inconveniencing a player in that manner is a serious negative.
Well, Torchlight had a pretty good idea - Your pet gets rid of all the items you want to sell.
Torchlight also added wandering vendors in which you could sell loot to.
Those 2 options alone made it near un-reasonable to travel to town unless it was to put loot you’ve collected into your stash.
Diablo 3’s solution was this, don’t drop so much trash that your inventory could ever get too full before you reach your next destination. That worked out pretty well in the demos.
That coupled with the previous Torchlight solution insures that you do not really need a town-portal function.
Except both games still have portals as well…
I think creating mechanics that ease the players requirement to go back to town constantly are cool, but removing (or limiting) their ability to do so is a bad idea.
Really, your solution to the “get out of jail” card portal is to just remove it? Wouldn’t it be easier to just … you know, make the player actually CAST a portal spell? Or have to wait a duration for it to pop up so you can’t summon it in the middle of a battle. Or just restrict it completely provided you’re in combat.
Yeah, if it’s a balance thing making the cast for town portal a bit longer and maybe interrupt-able is probably a better solution…
Wrong, Diablo 3 does not have town portals, and to my knowledge never will.
Well whatever, still, Torchlight does and so did TQ (which this game is from) and I would not want to see it removed.