It seems like everyone has forgotten Maelstrom as if it has passed into oblivion. The skill exists as a proccer merely and contributes to the damage output less than a random devotion proc.
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I think we need to add these to the OP.
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have you actually tried using Maelstrom, more so tried using it vs maxing main node?
because the dmg difference is quite noticeable(more so since mechanically different/Mael stacks the other doesn’t)
I wanted to play these but I absolutely hate Mystic’s RR application so I can’t really say. The mods look bonkers on paper though.
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I tried playing Cyclone Elementalist after extra e-cute added to Wind Devil. Sad damage and I reported it. I think nowadays all extra dot to Wind Devil should move to extra dot to Maelstrom. Like this is for sure the first step.
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Is the first node on Wind Devils good for anything? I never maxxed it in any build… Seems to me more problematic than Maelstrom. Maybe Wind Devils need to be looked at closer… And should be added to the underpowerd skills.
Mystic is fine compared to chaos Deceiver 
And the worst is the one with Black Flame set that adds another seal… So stupid design of a set… And do not forget that it is for a chanelling skill…
I more or less tried to move my Vindicator to build around Wind Devils and it kinda fell flat. Their damage, my understanding, doesn’t stack with themselves due to them being this odd aura pet, so you don’t get anything from having more Wind Devils. I think they’re used to proc things more often, perhaps there’s some way to build around that, but that still doesn’t justify putting points into the first skill.
I’ve had the whole row of Wind Devils maxed and a lot invested into lightning/electrocute damage. Didn’t feel very effective at all. Might just be my hands, not entirely sure.
Aye. With these styles of pet - Wind Devils, Guardians of Empyrion, Blade Spirits. Their number doesn’t really do anything besides give marginally more AoE coverage (IF they move to attack different targets, which lack of individual targetting means you can’t even help with)
Their attacks don’t stack and so they don’t do more damage or proc more.
Wind Devils have a little bonus in that Maelstrom does stack and with multiples they can proc very often (Which is very effective for no-cooldown procs like the Aetherfire devo. They create an instant Malmouth wherever they go)
Kind of makes you question why these skills so often get increased summon numbers… Like, at least Wind Devils have Maelstrom and can consider these effects as a holdover from how they used to work where they DID stack (And you had to spend like 90% of your time actively summoning them and getting miffed when their random pathing never went near enemies…)
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Blade Spirits’ and bros’ dot damage stacks, that’s the main benefit of getting extra summons to them besides coverage. Plus I think Blade Spirit’s explosions and GoE’s cleaves count seperately for each pseudo pet.
Unironically its main value is Impaired Aim. At least among us, builders.
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if you have 0 sources of impair and like the concept of enemies once in a while gracing you with a projectile instead of dead center hitting you, you can put some points in it for the lulz
(not kidding, legit feels like impair got stealth changed at some point after v1.2.x.x and straight up doesnt’ work like it used to anymore)
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Sure you one point it (always have some + skills and you get a usable impaired aim) but beyond that the first node is just trash…
yeah devils are crap, worth adding
i have no idea how that build killed ravager in 5 seconds. the bloodfangs mod doesn’t look OP to me. maybe the onslaught tdm on the weapon can be reduced a little.
besides that, the build exploits the two of the main OP points already mentioned in the topic - huge Onslaught WD% and huge Onslaught stacks influence on the game
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Since we can now add mods to secondary skills, maybe it will make WDs a bit better? If all those mods are moved to Maelstrom.
Also for the love of god, more Maelstrom points like… please? It’s somewhat tricky to get it to 22/12 even on lightning in my experience, let alone cold/vit.
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The source is probably the stacking of TDM added to the onslaught itself.
At this point, the difference from other skills is clearly large, so unless there is a very good reason, I think it is dangerous to add TDM to onslaught. As for swords, I think it is enough just to make Bloodfang AoE. I don’t think there is any room for discussion regarding medals.
I’m not reading all of this thread just puking my input based on thread title:
TDM potions are op as fuck and all of the best builds run both, if your build can’t run either it’s garbage
TDM on furry forms is OP and more importantly makes many MANY builds “optimal” to run furry for TDM instead of a 2ndary class that makes thematic sense, this sucks. Throw the TDM on the skills or something please 
Berserker in general is OP, onslaught is busted, onslaught stacks are busted and should probably be toned to 10% TDM per IMO (If not more)
Weapon swap for extra shred on some classes is really strong, I wrote a fairly long piece of feeback on discord. I’ll copy paste it here:
" okay so here’s a passing thought: With the weapon swap tech I’ve recently been using Occultist, Inquisistor, Shaman, and Berserker get a huge boost to dps. Thermites despawn when you swap weapons, so do wind devils. Other classes don’t have a debuff (usually) they can cast for extra CC shred using a weapon swap removing debuffs on weapon swap would be the way to “balance” this but then also; why do we even have weapon swap in the first place? Does anyone really use it other than HC players panic swapping to double shields and a pillow fort to hide in?
#LetWindDevilsandThermiteMinesSnapshot
#andotherstufftoo
some specific cases have other things available, buuuuut those 3 routinely get 20-30% extra shred on their damage type off a weapon swap. In many cases this swap lasts 12 seconds and lets you allocate skill points elsewhere because you can do silly things like I am with the shield on my mystic build. I cap Bonechilling with my weapon swap set so I can drop points in my normal set for more damage.
This all being said; I think most players are too lazy to do this and in most cases it doesn’t actually matter. It takes more time to swap and cast then just smack mobs on “good” builds. The only time it actually matters is big bosses, nems, celestials. There are also many specific cases where weapon swap breaks other skills (like blood of dreeg) dropping your buff which at the wrong time can get you killed, easily.
(You can ask xervous how many times I’ve killed myself in crucible swapping weapons when I don’t mean to)
soldier can technically benefit, but I haven’t bothered to try
demo can’t, at least not that I’m aware of
nightblade itself can’t usually but is so often paired with things that can that it’s moot.
necro can but I haven’t played much necro anything since release
oathkeeper can’t afaik but a lot of oathkeeper sets have + shred and end up fine
arcanist can’t afaik, again tho it’s often paired with a class that can, You only need 1 pairing that can benefit from weapon swap and you’re fine
Sorc and Paladin probably have it worst overall. Specific builds may vary."
when I think of more it’s more than likely going into discord.
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I have something like 35 extra shred on my weapon swap between point allocation and the items themselves btw. The difference on target dummies is over half a million damage on each swing btw. I think it’s the TDM on the weapon + the TDM on the medal. I am using the TDM onslaught medal on non chaos builds because it has TDM. It’s stupidly powerful.
Edit:
I talked with Kaine a night or two ago in discord, 4sec ravager might be possible with this build If I solely build it for ravager and fish for a while.
I’m actually curious as to the extent that weapon swapping can now impact builds.
Notably, in regards to the Ascension system and how White/Yellow weapons can get some powerful Ascension modifiers.
From a quick glance, I’m noticing quite a lot of “Total Resistance Reduction” on a number of skills.
Obviously as you note, these effects on Wind Devils and Thermite Mines aren’t really abusable… However for skills like Curse of Frailty, Word of Pain, Devouring Swarm? Getting a free -20% Total Resistance (16% for WoP because Inq isn’t allowed nice things) just for swapping out to some Ascended yellow weapon when you apply the debuff is kind of crazy.
Also, DS would get an extra +4s duration from the same Ascended bonuses!
Some other debuff effects can get some bonuses too, like Bonechilling Cry getting an extra 280 DA shred from yellow ascended.
I wonder how buff skills interact with ascension as they can also get some extra bonuses like +10% Crit Damage on BoD and PB. Deadly Aim CDR procs on WoR. Ascension duration extension procs on Ascension…
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buffs get stripped when you swap weapons, I’ve already tested it. There’s probably some level of “swap weapon to the same weapon with different asc bonuses to keep up deadly aim” type shenanigans but I haven’t tried it yet. THAT I am almost 100% positive will work, you have to reapply the buff though.
You can also load up skill points like I did on my mystic. By my math weapon swap is worth 47% shred via straight shred OR skill points saved on this build. Remember: I also get the solael skill debuff for 10%.
Interesting.
Something I’m also curious about, is how “Total Resistance” shred functions. Like, it applies to everything? Including CC Res?
As I’m wondering, based on prior discussions, if this shred could contribute to an OFF build that perma-freezes nems (While maintaining 100% Fire RR…)
Hardcapped OFF is 45% Freeze RR, then Mageslayer/Luminati can provide 10% Freeze RR… Then 20% from Total Resist shred could push 75% Freeze RR which would leave Nems with their 133% Freeze Res with only 58% which is in reach of perma OFF with some extra duration and CDR.
Skill would still be utterly useless vs Super Bosses with their 500% Freeze Res. But for Nems it could be interesting.