Panetti RM

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

I’ve been goofing off with this skill for a while now, and I have a few thoughts that could really help this skill out.

  • The MI offhand is pretty disappointing when you compare it to other MIs. In particular, the MIs for PB are much better.

  • Sigle target damage is the biggest downfall, but I also think the flight speed could be increased about 30% too. I miss quite a few casts and waste quite a few due to the slow flight time. This is kind of a big deal since that initial impact aoe is so small.

    a). Easiest change. Perhaps change supercharged from a DoT to a %chance of lightning dmg? This would greatly increase the dmg since it is a spammable. A dot on a spammable doesn’t have near the value as it does on a cool down based skill.

    b) MI that gives a %30-40 chance to fire 2 missiles?

    c) My favorite idea!!! This is silly, and would require the most development work, but I think it’s pretty cool… The idea: Make it a %chance to spawn an elemental decoy/pet, or make it a new skill modifier by itself. This could be a spawn from the invoker set as well. The decoy has a percent chance to taunt, and it scales with player stats. The thing is though, it can be attacked by you. This effectively removes a single target situation, and gives the missile a chance to do its replicating. Of course, you’d have to build your dmg and defense up so that the decoy could last, and you’d have to position properly. Maybe a 3 second cool down (prior to any cdr) with a 15% chance to spawn and a reasonable summon limit, or just a limited lifetime. I’m in favor of the limited lifetime with no summon limit. Would be pretty awesome in a longer fight as your dmg would start increasing rapidly once the first summon proc’d, and would greatly help PRM in crucible gameplay. I think this idea is dynamic and would offer some unique ideas / builds. Not sure if possible, but it would be cool if the spawns could cast defensive spells like mirror, maivens, and nullify on their location. Kind of like stationary mimics.

Anyhow, what do you folks think?

2

You’re not wrong.
To be precise, all PRM offhands suck except Invoker’s Blaze, since it’s part of Invoker set. PRM without Invoker is just borderline non-viable in my book.
It’s puzzling why you mention offhands but not mainhands, which are pretty bad as well honestly speaking.

I dunno, never had issues with hitting/missing enemies.

Yes, supercharged isn’t very useful. I’m fine with this because PRM isn’t worth 16/12/12/12 investment to begin with.

You mean throw two initial missiles instead of one, so that you could shotgun with PRM? Mad enough, I like it :smiley:

Or just summon a dozen of arcanists that’ll cast PRM for you :rolleyes:
I think what you’re trying to come up here is a workaround for the problem instead of solution.

3

Dot on spammable skills is dumb, see also: AAR. It just makes no sense.

4

Never used the skill or intending to. Is it as bad as AAR (which I also never used)?

5

You’d have to try really hard to create a skill as terrible as AAR. PRM is, you know, fine but hardly great. It’s just very … average. Given the large number of above average builds out there, I don’t blame you for never trying it.

6

I have a defiler so that’s enough averageness (or below averageness) for me, not bothering with making builds that are going to be average after it, just because a skill or mastery combo is weak or/and got no proper item support.

7

I think PRM is fine right now, but I’d like to see the PRM legendary wand get some useful skill modifiers.
Burn damage that doesn’t get buffed by the weapon itself, or reduced Inq. Seal cost?
Compared to some good skill modifiers on weapons such as Trozan’s Starkeeper, that just doesn’t cut it.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone use that weapon except as a stopgap, because for Ele PRM you got Arcanum Sigillis, for Aether you have Wrath of the Ascendant, Clairvoyant’s, etc.
Having an extra viable option, especially one with the name of the skill on it, would be great.

Considering the name of the item and skill, having the wand cast an extra set of missiles that can hit the main target once, would be interesting to set it apart from the current top choices.
Maybe not possible as a skill modifier, but just having a Panetti clone proc that has good trigger conditions and damage would make it useful, not just as a PRM weapon but also for Ele casters in general.

8

Would be cool if PRM reconverged back at the site where it was first replicated.

I think reducing the number of replicated projectiles might make this an avenue worth exploring.

9

Not just a cool idea, the code for this already exists in the various hero nova-like abilities. It might get a bit out of hand but proper balancing of the number of cloned projectiles should make it work.

10

So, Aleks PRM then. Minus the shotgun.

11

I am happy this thread was made. Currently testing PRM myself. Invoker’s seems only decent version.

12

Threads like that show up from time to time, even started one myself few months ago.

The problem with PRM is that even with heavy investment like 26/22/x/22 PRM is about 600 flat last time I checked, doesn’t sound so good considering that some 1h builds boast with the same amount for normal attack (which means it’s further boosted with %weapon damage and extra flat on lmb skills, so these builds will do 50% more single target damage than PRM at the very least). One can argue that it’s not necessary to use only PRM and that’s more or less true since arcanist means devastation.

Invoker just happens to cover up for the major flaws - lack of flat damage (modifier and procs) and lack of RR in arcanist (the proc is highest rr I’ve seen on skills, although that is offset by taking the conduit slot which is often used to grab either more flat or more rr). Invoker also partually converts aether to fire and lightning on devastation which is also a good minor boon.

13

Even with the Invoker set, PRM is at best average. It certainly isn’t worth the heavy skill point investment.

Heck. Devastation does a better job.

You’re also far better off using FoI instead of PRM. There’s absoltely no incentive to use PRM

14

well, I guess I’m definitely not alone in wishing this skill could get some love :slight_smile:

Yeah, you’re right. It is at best an attempt to bandage the problem. I’ve noticed something strange though. I was attacking the dummies and of course, the dmg is far greater with more dummies. However, when I lined up 3 of them, and then cast at the first one in front of me, very few missiles made it through. In contrast, if I targeted the third one back, tons made it through and all the dummies took a lot of dmg. The closest one to me took the most dmg for multiple reasons. This difference in game play was pretty huge just based on which target was picked.

I would like to clarify when I “miss”. It is usually once I start to cast the missiles, and the first one kills intended target, but I had already cast a second. If it doesn’t happen to line up with the next baddy, then its a miss. Happens pretty often if spamming. Clicking like I’m pulling a trigger helps, but god that’s a bit annoying.

So question, how much dmg is needed to put this at a reasonable lvl for single targets? Cause it seems like at least doubling it would be quite fair.

The AAR gets about 1000 dmg/sec just from 16 points!

PRM gets about:
(Skill Slot/ Points/ dmg)
PRM, 16, 163 elemental
Dist., 12, 87 aether)
Super, 12, 130 electrocute - does that stun do anything to bosses? fumble might be better
Prolif, 12, 84.5 aehter; but this does not apply to the targeted enemy, right?

So PRM skill dmg on a single target is???
163 elemental
87 aether
130 electrocute - doesn’t stack

AAR/PRM (crude ratio and assuming 100% cast)
1000/380 ~ 3:1

So PRM with its 40 skill points has a little more than a third of the dmg that AAR has with just 16 skill points. “but PRM clears…” So does 12 points in OFF.

I mean, this is bad. So bad. So many skill points, so little gain. If I’m going to invest this heavily for a skill that can clear, it should also have a mechanic to deal hefty single target dmg. Devastation is devastation; PRM should not rely on it. As is, the point investment for a maxed PRM is stupid high for the yield.

That 70 fire dmg on the invoker off-hand seems like a bad joke here. The flat dmg is still too low. +700 might be more appropriate. lol…

I think you guys are right about the PRM wand. This thing has a DOT on it… WHY put on dot on our spamming skill??? This thing should allow you to dual cast! Or just throw 3 missiles at once!

I feel like the support for PB is quite good, and some of that like the +1 projectile would really be helpful here.

15

i agreee prm is heavy on the investment but after i tried akdong prm I dont think its right to say its average. Actually i find it more than average even strong.

see this build: Invoker Elemental is the way to go

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69164&page=2

16

That’s a nice build. But I just don’t get Light Defender set there.

17

Hmm…in what context is it strong? Firstly, it is a skill which is only truly viable when paired with (surprise, surprise) the inquisitor.

Now, let’s look at the skill point cost:

  1. 40 mandatory points into Arcanist mastery bar
  2. PRM investment: 16 + 12 + 12 + 12 = 58
  3. 50 points into inqui mastery
  4. 12 points into AoC

Total mandatory skill points needed: 160

That’s 66% of of your total skill points gone into core skills.

If you want devastation, that’s another 26 skill points.

Now, let’s even go so far as to ignore top tier skills like cadence and savagery.

FoI itself will beat out PRM with less of a skill point investment to boot (i.e. only 1 point in endless flame is needed if you go magehunter)

If we use the current criterion a build must meet to be considered top tiered, PRM comes no where close to it.

Lmao, even my AAR binder beats it. And trust me, I’ve tried making an aether PRM binder as well (sheet DPS was an abysmal 80k).

So why does PRM fall flat on its face despite it being the iconic arcanist skill?

The lack of single target DPS.

Hence my proposed solution - decrease the number of replicated projectiles, and make them reconverge.

18

Agree with Spanks here. For that amount of skill points skill is not “strong”. It’s average at best. I bet you I can make a Chillspikes Inilftrator that is going to be stronger than your best PRM Mage Hunter. And that makes prm kinda shite.

19

Invoker is decent. But if you compare it to the weapon based builds I wouldn’t call it strong.

Consider that Invoker tends to get claimed as the best PRM build. Finding one build that works may speak more to certain items being overtuned than the skill itself being fine.

Try leveling with PRM. It’s painful. Overly painful. Devastation also tends to be a big carrier of both AAR and PRM. They both need work. They underperform compared to other builds on the forum.

20

Its just over 650 with a 26/22/1/22 investment - but good luck getting there while using Invoker without messing up your defenses royally. We’ll call it 750 once Invoker set is factored in and 36% weapon damage (it is just a one handed pistol after all)

Now obviously the answer to if that is enough or not would depend upon how fast the base animation is, and I’ve never sat down to time it…but it doesn’t feel great comparing it to other elemental specs such as…

This is very true from my experience. A good two handed FoI build, even making sacrifices to get 7.5% lifesteal, can have 640ish flat elemental damage to FoI. And it hits somewhere in the neighborhood of 3X more often.

Edit: Looking back over the builds I haven’t been entirely fair. Its worth mentioning that because of good itemization in the Invoker set itself, and built in lifesteal, a PRM spec should have ~4-500% more damage than a similar FoI build (so 2000% for FoI 2500% for PRM). Also 200% cast speed is more readily available while maintaining good defenses/decent OA. This might bring the ratio down to 2.5:1 or even 2:1 in FoI’s favor. Still heavily favoring FoI though…