Physical damage change led to obvious results

So, remember back in the days the existance of converted physical exploited was justified by saying that “its been this since the dawn of time and physical damage `s been balanced around it”. Remember, right?
Apparently it wasnt 'cause after the fix of this “”“feature”"" theres havent been a slight hint of compensation. Ofc its understandable given that its only beta of the patch and everything is a subject to change. However, alongside with this came something rather unexpected and imo unneeded - removal of most accesible ele to phys conversions. That in mind i create this thread for people to give feedback on physical builds performance after in 9.2 (or 9.3 according to the game). Post all your warborn’s EoR, Octaviuses, Spellscourges, Targos and other Cronley crawlers.


As for me I tested 2 builds so far - phys AAR and phys BS dervish.
Ill start with the latest - its dead. What before was 100% elemental to phys ended up being 36%. BS were nerfed, BoW was nerfed, Azraaka’s damage was gutted because now it doesnt bypass armor. I did one 6.23 and the other time i died at 6.40 at 170th with all nemesis full health. Damage is simply terrible (before it was 5.12 at best).
Phys AAR is not as bad as BS, i managed to did one 4.59 with marked and double swift mut, other runs were 5.18, 5.52 and 5.29. I havent met maiden though and given that she was tough even before the change im a bit sceptical.

So, how did your builds go?

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The armor interaction with converted damage is all of about a day old, and has not been compensated for in some instances yet.

Physical AAR was an example that was on my radar as something that will likely need a bump. Others may come in time.

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The whole fix isnt that terrible (because its can always be compensated), im more concerned about removal of conversions tbh.

w/o many words. Spellscourge before the patch was consistently sub 5:30 (5:18 at best), Octavius was at best 6 mins.
Now they’re like 30 secs slower which is a huge amount of time, actually.
And keep in mind that these sets were made for converted-into-phys skills.
So, imo, it would be better just to reverse the things as they used to be.
No need to make mediocre and weak builds even weaker (also worth mentioning there was no compensation for converted phys in terms of RR/damage).

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Shouldn’t be effected by the conversion changes due to Beronath, Reforged.

Conversion for these was either moved to the full set bonus or in Octavius’ case to pieces that arn’t used in partial builds (Shield/Shoulders vs the classic Head + Chest). Only builds using the Spellscourge/Targo partially will be effected by the conversion change.

The above conversion changes and some others like the “Viper Sandspitter: added -30% Retaliation damage Modified modifier for Righteous Fervor” honestly strike me as more of a hard-block to converted Retaliation at long last than anything else even if it adversely effects everyone else.

That said, I still agree with seeing as many Physical builds converted or not like Warborn, Octavius, Spellscourge etc. getting retested and showcased to see the changes they’ve gone through now and what further buffs needs to be made.

It does by fixing the conveted phys interaction.

So converted phys does not bypass armor, it’s a huge change and require a lot of compensation that needs to be adressed one by one. And as already mentioned, some items were meant to be a converted physical which now become obsolete?

I thought this was a joke, now it’s real and require huge changes at this point…

I was strictly talking on the removal of Elemental->Physical conversion over multiple items/sets, i didn’t say armour/physical change in that sentence.

but i wasnt talking only about conversion removal and said “post your stuff” regarding all physical builds that used/are using the conversions.

Maybe it’s me reading into why you specifically chose Spellscourge, Octavius, Targo and Warborn then for your examples, as 3 out of 4 of these had their Elemental->Physical conversion moved. My mistake.

Here is a video from 1.191 on my physical eor devastation templar.

Performance was acceptable and it felt pretty safe cleared 90%+ of the time. With the small buffs it had originally received in the 192 test realm it was possible to see slightly better clear times than the above video. After the converted physical change with things going public, the build went into the toilet. Nearly a minute added to average run times, and that is assuming I managed to stay alive. The reduced leech from both weapon damage and devastation projectiles leads to health spiking down to death far more often. I had managed to clear sr 80 before, but I’m not sure if that is possible any longer if my crucible testing it anything to go by.
gt link for reference: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/aZq0qG6V

Builds I plan on re-resting; 1h blade arc spellscourge DK, physical doombolt deceiver (a lot of damage came from converted pierce + blades of wrath, assuming much much worse results), physical primal strike vindi (which barely was average after the buffs to korvan on the last test patch, and probably is back to bad status), phys guardians oppressor (probably non functional due to conversion loss even ignoring the armor change), phys rune pally non-octavious

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A bit off topic but i need to know what triggered such huge phys dmg revamp (nerf)? I don’t play as much and am not very active at forums, did i miss smth OP? It seems like 2/3 of endgame phys builds were gutted and the dmg type wasn’t too strong to begin with.

Maybe it’s finally time to remove multiple armor application to one hit?

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but eor in particular is the most effected skill with the conversion change due to the number of small hits that are reduced by armor… and half of the damage from the skill used to avoid said interaction since playing phys eor without 100% elemental to phys was a no go before.

Even on my build using bear to help mitigate it, the change was hugely noticeable. (especially since devastation is similar in a way on spell scourge relying on multiple hits frequently)

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Honestly, I’m quite puzzled as to why such a massive change would be put into the game at this point in development. The amount of work having to balance all of this seems to be extraordinarily high given the game is almost completely done… :thinking:

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I’m aware that Physical EoR is heavily effected by armour both before and after the change, that wasn’t what my I was thinking about with the above posts I made.

If I had to guess, a certain someone was probably fed up/tired of everyone clamouring for converted Physical way, way too much and hating everything else about the damage type otherwise.

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Physical damage indeed was pretty mediocre damage type and now will suffer more. I guess other than individual adjustments to most gutted builds, can be possible to add global solutions. Like increased armor shred by Bear or boost of RR values.

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I don’t doubt that plays into part of the decision to do that - I’m just thinking about the amount of work needed to bump everything back up. In my limited time playing with the game files, it seems to me that the cost in time seems to greatly outweigh the end result.

If anything recently changed :zantai:'s mind it was probably claiming that new players can just easily roll up a Cala-killer using retal to get the Super Boss helmet. But I’m sure there were a multitude of factors involved…

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You gotta admit, the old interaction was janky as hell and about as unintuitive as possible. Even if there are growing pains for a bit (as there are bound to be with such a huge change), it’s worth eliminating one of GD’s most arcane engine interactions. Time to stop just brushing weird crap under the rug, imo.

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So you are saying the game was changed out of spite towards one person/group of people?
Unlikely.

the biggest bullshit regarding phys damage always was and is separate count of flat sources. Converted phys was quite straightforward.

As for other other “arcane engine interactions” i would list %DR reducing everything as the biggest one.

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