Please tell me why this build fails... I'm stumped

I had a Worldeater dropped and was pumped up to find a build that can make it shine. I came up with this one: It is a Fire based Commando using transmuted Forcewave as the default attack and Blitz as the AOE secondary attack and movement skill. To buff up single target attack, I also use Grenado.

On paper, it is really strong: high DA+OA, high damage output, high armor, maxed out resistances (even the secondary ones such as freeze and slow resist), quite high HP, acceptable regen… In reality, though, the build was destroyed even in main campaign. It cannot even take on the Bastion of Chaos.

At first I suspected that the culprit was the lack of RR, so I tried changing the devotion setup to accommodate RR from the Viper. It is still not enough.

Where did I go wrong? Is Forcewave not strong enough to be used as the default attack? Or the RR I have is still not enough? Or is it just because fire based characters are screwed up end-game because so many mobs have Fire Resist? Or is there a certain way to play transmuted Forcewave to make the skill worthwhile?

I would focus entirely on Forcewave and drop Grenado - it means that you’re not using gear pieces that are really solid for Fire Forcewave (such as the full Justice set obviously) and that the points you spend in Grenado are not being used on other utility/defensive skills.

Similarly, I would drop Blitz down to one point as I would say you are spreading yourself out too much between between Forcewave, Blitz and Grenado.

I would highly suggest you pick up Elemental Storm for a flat source of resist reduction (as I currently cannot find one in your setup) and also pick up Thermite Mines for the same reason. They will help with your damage overall (hence return more health from ADCtH) and also will help on Fire-resistant enemies.

I would recommend picking up Flashbang for the DA strip and at least one point (more if you want to be safer) into Searing Light as Fumble/Impaired Aim are great debuffs that even effect Nemeses.

Take at look at BladeAndShadow’s Fire Forcewave Commando that was posted some patches ago to see an example of a fully-focused Fire Forcewave Commando.

Thanks for your quick reply. The build is like it is because I don’t have the full Justice Armor set. I would however, try your suggestion to drop Grenado completely. I have to ask, tho, why Flashbang and not BWC for debuff?

I can’t remember for certain (someone else is gonna have to verify/correct this for me) but reduced target’s damage (War Cry) and reduced target’s Physical damage (High Potency) do not stack - the highest value is used. You could either take 12/12 War Cry for 25% reduced target’s damage or transmuted BWC for 18% reduced target’s Physical damage depending on how many points you have. Or both, War Cry doesn’t get 100% uptime after all.

Some other things to point out that I just noticed - I would also take Eldritch Fire, I’m not sure if you had any Fire resist reduction in your grimtools link there :eek: RR is important as it multiplies your damage depending on how far you can lower your enemies resistances.

Blitz isn’t really needed if you have Blazing Charge. 1 point Blitz is/would be used for movement but Blazing Charge already does that. Kind of forgot Korvaak’s relic did that :rolleyes:

Here are the things I noticed:

  1. Only +10% crit damage, so crits will be small.
  2. Possibly not enough OA/DA. 2800 isn’t quite enough unless you have good ways to reduce enemy OA/DA, at least for Gladiator Crucible/some superbosses.
  3. Not enough resist reduction, as pointed out by Evil_Baka.
  4. No source of % damage absorption or % reduced damage. These are really key defensive stats to survival.

Here’s a tweaked build:

Here’s what I did:

  • Took points out of Blitz (15), Fighting Spirit (3), Menhir’s Will (4), Grenado (18), Temper (6), and Blast Shield (2)
  • Put points into War Cry (11) for 25% reduced target’s damage
  • Put points into Flashbang + Searing Light (2) for 190 reduced DA, and fumble/impaired aim chance
  • Put points into Thermite Mine (6) for 35% fire RR
  • Put points into BWC (19) for damage, 25 flat RR, and 214 reduced OA
  • Put points into Cadence + Deadly Momentum (13) for auto-attack replacer and damage buff
  • Swapped Dire Bear for Solemn Watcher (gives more DA, you had more than enough Devotion Skill binds already)

Overall I think you could still use more fire resist reduction. If you were to grab Solael’s Witchblade you could get another -23% fire resist reduction proc, else you’d have to look for resist reduction on your gear, which seems unlikely. Right now you’re sitting at 80% fire resist reduction with Viper, which could be enough. If you worked Elemental Storm into your devotions like this you could remove Agonizing Flames from BWC and invest more points in Thermite Mine. This gets you an extra 12 RR putting you at 92, which should be workable.

Uh, oh. Now it is apparent that I still know so little about the synergy of oh-so-many things that make a great build.

Right. So it is as I suspected. Lack of RR is the main culprit here. I will take notice of this.

That’s a lot to take in. But you’re right. I had too much incoming damage, thus I have to reduce it. Yours is a simple, elegant solution. I learn a lot from you guys, thanks. FYI, I couldn’t see this IMO because I have several chars with less (sometimes way less) OA and DA than this one; and they are quite successful end-game, and to some extent in Gladiator. I can see now that the defense mechanic is way more complex that what little I knew.

Glad to help. :slight_smile:

OA is fairly straightforward. The more you have, the more you crit, and the more likely your crits are large. It’s always important to factor in DA reduction when evaluating a character’s OA. It’s good to aim for 3K effective OA or more, else you may not be able to crit certain nemeses/super bosses. This is especially true if your build relies on crits for procs or effective damage output.

DA is more complicated, as evidenced by the recent super-high DA builds from the Chinese GD community. There isn’t really a point where you have too much DA, but having 3K effective DA is considered by most folks here to be requisite to build success in Gladiator Crucuble. Outside of crucible you can probably get away with 2.8K or less, but it really depends on the build. A lot of stats factor into defenses in GD. :slight_smile: